• You can now help support WorldwideDX when you shop on Amazon at no additional cost to you! Simply follow this Shop on Amazon link first and a portion of any purchase is sent to WorldwideDX to help with site costs.

Tuner efficiency

The DB

Sr. Member
Aug 14, 2011
2,035
1,614
193
St. Louis, MO
Following a rather intense debate between two friends of mine about how efficient an antenna tuner actually is, and sketchy info at best on loss characteristics of tuners in general, this weekend I plan on running some scans for return loss through my MFJ Deluxe Versa Tuner II (MFJ-949E) tuner into both high impedance (open circuit) and low impedance (short circuit) loads. The frequencies scanned will cover between 1 and 30 MHz as those are the design frequencies of the antenna tuner itself. I will run these scans on all inductor settings A through L, and for this test the capacitors will be set at half way. Is anyone willing to give any predictions on outcomes?

My current prediction is, except for possible self resonant points in the tuner, we will not see the return loss exceed 1 dB. I also think that should we see any self resonant points, those points will be largely narrow peaks of return loss that are orders of magnitude higher than other frequencies in the scans, possibly off of whatever scale I use (likely a 10 dB scale unless I need a different scale to measure accurate readings).

Also a note, as the signal passes through the tuner twice for return loss measurements, the actual losses of the tuner at given frequencies will actually be half the return loss value in decibels.


The DB
 

while you're playing with OPEN and SHORT, how about measuring the LOAD too?

transmission loss?
 
The problem is I need a 100% reflection at the antenna end of the tuner. To get this you need an infinite SWR. The only way to get an infinite SWR is to use either an open or short circuit loads. Anything other than an open or short circuit loads will absorb some amount of the signal instead of reflecting all of it, and thus artificially raise the return loss that is being measured spoiling the results. This is also a good way to make a tuner appear more lossy than it actually is as you are effectively adding losses outside of the tuner itself. Unless you are telling me that you have a reliable method to compensate for said additional losses?


The DB
 
Perhaps I misunderstood what you were asking, were you wanting me to measure things like SWR and Xs and Rs as well? I could do that. It would define where the resonant points, if any, actually are. Also if there are enough losses present we chould see an effect on the SWR curve, perhaps enough of a dip for measurable SWR? I hadn't thought about these possibilities. I think I'll have the scans scan for these variables as well...


The DB
 
A very simple ...easy way to test this is simply a power meter before and after the tuner.make sure these two power meters read the same ..

Look at input and output power from said tuner.

While I do like and use mfj their products are not the best and won't reflect other better built tuners.

Also it depends on what tuner is used for what load as to which is best. General ly a l match is lowest loss ..One inductor and one capacitor. .and again depends on the build of inductor and capacitor to how much loss their is.

Say we are using a 160 meter dipole on 40 meters ..The losses a tuner has is far less then the losses and fold back you would see without one "coax" .

Of course for best performance the tuner needs to be at the base of the antenna ..or atleast be fed with ladder line to the tuner.

73
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Sorry forget to mention for this test your load must match your coax so it's loss isn't also calculated ..75 ohm coax and dummy loads are easy to get.
 
I'm a bit delayed on running this test, ended up being busier than I planned this past weekend... Appologies for that.

I planned on attaching the analyzer with a coupler, and plugging the test loads directly into the antenna output...


The DB
 

dxChat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • @ Wildcat27:
    Hello I have a old school 2950 receives great on all modes and transmits great on AM but no transmit on SSB. Does anyone have any idea?
  • @ ButtFuzz:
    Good evening from Sunny Salem! What’s shaking?
  • dxBot:
    63Sprint has left the room.
  • dxBot:
    kennyjames 0151 has left the room.