Thanks for all the replies! I have not heard those sounds on my radio, but I will be keeping my ears open.
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upper cb frequencies
- Thread starter doctor
- Start date
Just a question. Why is it that the "charts" include 28 MHZ frequencies that clearly are NOT part of CB?(YES) Wouldn't this lead those not fully informed to think that they could use these frequencies as well? (YES)Does this lead in any way to adding to the problem of unlicensed operators on 10 Meters? (AND YES)
(now let's not get excited..it's just a honest question.)
73
CWM
These two links give some good insights into the use of the 'freeband' and 'legal' bands useage - as compiled courtesy of Bells CB Shop.
Fair place to start...
25-30 Mhz users
25-30 Mhz band
Fair place to start...
25-30 Mhz users
25-30 Mhz band
It's hard to believe in this day and time with all the modern tech. that the "goverment" would use 27 mhz for anything.
i know of in nj where police upstate still use below 30 mhz (think below 28 mhz)
i know of in nj where police upstate still use below 30 mhz (think below 28 mhz)
ALL portions of the HF spectrum have uses by agencies ranging from government, military, and civilian agencies. Understanding how, for example, 11 Meters could be of use to other than CB operators is either taught by experience or by formal training in communications and propagation characteristics of the HF spectrum (which we are dealing with here). Communications planners, military and civilian, make use of spectrum based on what frequencies will do the job at the time. For example, you recall that Moleculo had a discussion about "ALE" (Auto-Link Extablishment) on these pages some time ago. For example, military HF equipment is FAR more sophisticated than we in the civilian world know! For example, ALE is not USED in the same way we are accustomed to using our CB and ham radios. WE select a specific channel in a specific band and start talking. Not so with ALE. The ALE protocol usually sends out "sampling" or "handshake" signals on various bands. YOU, the operator, may not necesarily KNOW what frequency you are using within your assigned bands; the radios have "shaken hands" with each other, or locked onto each other and when you pick up the mike, the radios within the net (Network) are "talking" to each other with tone signals, etc, and you pass your traffic.
So why would 11 Meters, for example, be "worth" anything "in this day and age"? A LOT, actually!!!! IF a military network has traffic and 26.443 is one of their frequencies within their hundreds (or thousands) of frequencies spread from 2.0 and 50 MHZ, and it is telling the ALE system that, "Hey, THIS frequency is the one that will BEST carry the traffic right now", then it IS important---even if the connection is fleeting. The ALE radios may then instantly "shake hands" on 20 MHZ and lock on there while the operators copying traffic have no knowledge, nor NEED to know, of what frequency he is using.
In a non-ALE system, it relies on training, knowledge of propagation, and the requirements of net traffic to determine what frequency one might use. One example is, using that 26 MHZ frequency again, while CB operators, usually untrained in such matters, think only of "how FAR am I getting out", the military comm. officer might choose that 11 Meter frequency for the OPPOSITE reason. Perhaps, he has highly utilized VHF circuits and needs a low-power, very LOCALIZED HF system, so he chooses 26 Megs at the 5 watt level. He chose that because it minimizes the load on other frequencies. He can put one aircraft on a VHF simplex channel, another on another, then he can assign yet another to use a low power portable on HF. Perhaps he has a vehicle in a certain sector, and he wants to keep the missions separate on another HF frequency. ALL this keeps his forces organized, yet separated, and keeps down circuit loads and confusion. It may also offer a measure of comm. security. If there is some disaster within CONUS, the news media is always snooping, ready to blab everything they hear. So they come with SCANNERS, and YES! They hear traffic, some of which may be in the clear. Most of it will be encoded, tho. Many of them DON'T have Single SIDEBAND "scanners". SO, we can transmit, still encoded for extra security, and all they hear is a garbled mess!!! Makes' em SOOO MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's one reason that the military and government have 11 Meter assignments. There ARE no "extra" channels, and there ARE good reasons for the assignments within 11 Meters.
73
CWM
So why would 11 Meters, for example, be "worth" anything "in this day and age"? A LOT, actually!!!! IF a military network has traffic and 26.443 is one of their frequencies within their hundreds (or thousands) of frequencies spread from 2.0 and 50 MHZ, and it is telling the ALE system that, "Hey, THIS frequency is the one that will BEST carry the traffic right now", then it IS important---even if the connection is fleeting. The ALE radios may then instantly "shake hands" on 20 MHZ and lock on there while the operators copying traffic have no knowledge, nor NEED to know, of what frequency he is using.
In a non-ALE system, it relies on training, knowledge of propagation, and the requirements of net traffic to determine what frequency one might use. One example is, using that 26 MHZ frequency again, while CB operators, usually untrained in such matters, think only of "how FAR am I getting out", the military comm. officer might choose that 11 Meter frequency for the OPPOSITE reason. Perhaps, he has highly utilized VHF circuits and needs a low-power, very LOCALIZED HF system, so he chooses 26 Megs at the 5 watt level. He chose that because it minimizes the load on other frequencies. He can put one aircraft on a VHF simplex channel, another on another, then he can assign yet another to use a low power portable on HF. Perhaps he has a vehicle in a certain sector, and he wants to keep the missions separate on another HF frequency. ALL this keeps his forces organized, yet separated, and keeps down circuit loads and confusion. It may also offer a measure of comm. security. If there is some disaster within CONUS, the news media is always snooping, ready to blab everything they hear. So they come with SCANNERS, and YES! They hear traffic, some of which may be in the clear. Most of it will be encoded, tho. Many of them DON'T have Single SIDEBAND "scanners". SO, we can transmit, still encoded for extra security, and all they hear is a garbled mess!!! Makes' em SOOO MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's one reason that the military and government have 11 Meter assignments. There ARE no "extra" channels, and there ARE good reasons for the assignments within 11 Meters.
73
CWM
Yawn...
Where ya been, Morse? I don't know where we'd be without your droll blather; it certainly is unique.
Now for the reality check, OM: extra channels (yes, extra channels... CB radios come with 40, adding more = extras.. get it?) are going to be used by 11 meter bootleggers from now until eternity. Given the present sunspot doldrums, all the so-called "rightful users" of the band may have less QRM at the moment. However, soon the propagation will increase to the point where they will skee-daddle the heck out of there when they're drowned out by hobby op's. Simply put, 11 meter hobby operators will run off all comers.
Don't like it? Too cotton pickin' bad. Deal with it. Just don't let your blood pressure cause your gaskets to pop.
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Where ya been, Morse? I don't know where we'd be without your droll blather; it certainly is unique.
Now for the reality check, OM: extra channels (yes, extra channels... CB radios come with 40, adding more = extras.. get it?) are going to be used by 11 meter bootleggers from now until eternity. Given the present sunspot doldrums, all the so-called "rightful users" of the band may have less QRM at the moment. However, soon the propagation will increase to the point where they will skee-daddle the heck out of there when they're drowned out by hobby op's. Simply put, 11 meter hobby operators will run off all comers.
Don't like it? Too cotton pickin' bad. Deal with it. Just don't let your blood pressure cause your gaskets to pop.
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No they won't If you've ever tried to use a frequency that was being occupied by ALE or the other military equivalents, you soon give up. It doesn't take a whole lot of this type of activity to make it unbearable for voice operations. Don't believe me? Try me out...we'll do a test
And here's the other thing you're forgetting. If a military frequency continues to get interfrence from unlicesed ops, they will direction find you and report you first to the FCC, and then to other authorities. The military does not mess around. I remember about two years ago we had a lab that was interfering with one of our MARS frequencies with their radar testing. First they denied...then they were reported...it didn't take that long... The military are the LAST guys you want to piss off on the spectrum.
That doesnt hold water because 11 meters is used more in central America.
There are all kinds of frequencies used by all those spanish speaking nations.
The skip is alot more prevalent down there, and the governments have no restrictions on 11 meter use.
So what is the US military going to do when they want to use 11 meters.
The answer is simple: the US military does not use 11 meters.
There are all kinds of frequencies used by all those spanish speaking nations.
The skip is alot more prevalent down there, and the governments have no restrictions on 11 meter use.
So what is the US military going to do when they want to use 11 meters.
The answer is simple: the US military does not use 11 meters.
I believe Moleculo is a member of the MARS.
(BTW-I applied for MARS yesterday.)
Since you are a member, maybe you should answer him?
My thoughts:
Of course MARS useage of 11m is within the US and its territories. One must remember that the miltary use of all radio freq's is more strategic and more flexible than settling for a certain set of bands or freqs. Skip from another contry -if present- wouldn't change how they were going to use it. On a strong skip day, all freq's can be affected. Do you think that would stop the Army's plans to use it. No; they would work around and with it...
(BTW-I applied for MARS yesterday.)
Since you are a member, maybe you should answer him?
My thoughts:
Of course MARS useage of 11m is within the US and its territories. One must remember that the miltary use of all radio freq's is more strategic and more flexible than settling for a certain set of bands or freqs. Skip from another contry -if present- wouldn't change how they were going to use it. On a strong skip day, all freq's can be affected. Do you think that would stop the Army's plans to use it. No; they would work around and with it...
Let's see...
I'm looking at my Navy-Marine Corp. MARS frequency list right here....I count NINE frequencies allocated to us on 26Mhz and 27Mhz. That doesn't include Air Force and Army MARS. And that also doesn't include frequencies allocated to active military.
Have you ever heard that "woodpecker" noise on 11m, just above the regular 40 CB channels? Have you ever asked yourself, "what's that??"
I'm looking at my Navy-Marine Corp. MARS frequency list right here....I count NINE frequencies allocated to us on 26Mhz and 27Mhz. That doesn't include Air Force and Army MARS. And that also doesn't include frequencies allocated to active military.
Have you ever heard that "woodpecker" noise on 11m, just above the regular 40 CB channels? Have you ever asked yourself, "what's that??"
According to my frequency allocation chart, the following frequencies within the 11 meter band are not used by, nor shared with, the U.S. military:
26.175 to 26.48 MHz;
26.95 to 26.96;
the CB band;
27.41 to 27.54
Hobby communications should not interfere with any military operations within those boundaries (although we all know the military can use any frequency within the spectrum it pleases).
And Sparky, regarding good ol' C.W., may I kindly suggest: don't feed the troll. He is like an annoying QRM'er just seeking attention. "Look at me! Look at me!" LOL (Just ignore him.)
26.175 to 26.48 MHz;
26.95 to 26.96;
the CB band;
27.41 to 27.54
Hobby communications should not interfere with any military operations within those boundaries (although we all know the military can use any frequency within the spectrum it pleases).
And Sparky, regarding good ol' C.W., may I kindly suggest: don't feed the troll. He is like an annoying QRM'er just seeking attention. "Look at me! Look at me!" LOL (Just ignore him.)
God Bless the U.S. Military
Please allow me to clarify my previous remarks.
Firstly, I have the utmost respect for the U.S. Military, its affiliates (i.e. MARS OP's), and our honored veterans. I would do nothing to purposely interfere with military comm's, especially during this time of heightened homeland security.
Secondly, I am not in the habit of "troll feeding." The particular troll in question is a known instigator whose sanctimonious rantings pollute not only this forum, but others as well. Many of us know who he is. I should have known better not to even respond, as it gave him his jollies once again, but I wasn't in the best of moods, and should have left the computer alone that evening. My apologies to the forum, its moderators, and its visitors.
Scantheband: your frequency list is correct according to a chart which I have. If I should get the urge to transmit on questionable frequencies, my 11 meter exploits would most often be contained within those frequency ranges, therefore avoiding interference with sensitive services.
Dudmuck: your observations are entirely correct; there is so much QRM from foreign stations (not only in South America) that 11 meters is virtually "taken over" by those stations, leaving the legitimate operators flooded with QRM, ALE and other digital error-correcting modes not withstanding.
My contempt is with the FCC. And yes, I have the right, as an American, to seek redress against that corrupt agency comprised mainly of nitwits. If that is not possible through legal means, then civil disobedience is one way to accomplish that goal. Not only has the FCC bungled its dealings with the Amateur Radio Service through the years, its fumbling with the Citizens Radio Service has left it with egg on its collective faces. And, of course, need I remind everyone of its shady dealings with BPL? It goes on, and on, and on...
Eleven meter hobby communications outside of the allocated forty channels is truly civil disobedience at its finest -- pure and simple. It is a way for the people to fight back at the powers-that-be in a manner that is not much different than other noble displays of organized protest. It is a powerful display of activity aimed against a corrupt government agency that, in my opinion, should be dismantled completely and replaced with one that is accountable to the people of the United States, not beholden to the big money broadcasters and deep pocketed special interests. (Yeah, I know... dream on...)
So, dear friends and radio operators, please understand that my annoyance is merely with self-righteous trolls and corrupt government agencies -- not with our excellent military, our dedicated MARS OP's, or our honored veterans and current service people.
God Bless America
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Please allow me to clarify my previous remarks.
Firstly, I have the utmost respect for the U.S. Military, its affiliates (i.e. MARS OP's), and our honored veterans. I would do nothing to purposely interfere with military comm's, especially during this time of heightened homeland security.
Secondly, I am not in the habit of "troll feeding." The particular troll in question is a known instigator whose sanctimonious rantings pollute not only this forum, but others as well. Many of us know who he is. I should have known better not to even respond, as it gave him his jollies once again, but I wasn't in the best of moods, and should have left the computer alone that evening. My apologies to the forum, its moderators, and its visitors.
Scantheband: your frequency list is correct according to a chart which I have. If I should get the urge to transmit on questionable frequencies, my 11 meter exploits would most often be contained within those frequency ranges, therefore avoiding interference with sensitive services.
Dudmuck: your observations are entirely correct; there is so much QRM from foreign stations (not only in South America) that 11 meters is virtually "taken over" by those stations, leaving the legitimate operators flooded with QRM, ALE and other digital error-correcting modes not withstanding.
My contempt is with the FCC. And yes, I have the right, as an American, to seek redress against that corrupt agency comprised mainly of nitwits. If that is not possible through legal means, then civil disobedience is one way to accomplish that goal. Not only has the FCC bungled its dealings with the Amateur Radio Service through the years, its fumbling with the Citizens Radio Service has left it with egg on its collective faces. And, of course, need I remind everyone of its shady dealings with BPL? It goes on, and on, and on...
Eleven meter hobby communications outside of the allocated forty channels is truly civil disobedience at its finest -- pure and simple. It is a way for the people to fight back at the powers-that-be in a manner that is not much different than other noble displays of organized protest. It is a powerful display of activity aimed against a corrupt government agency that, in my opinion, should be dismantled completely and replaced with one that is accountable to the people of the United States, not beholden to the big money broadcasters and deep pocketed special interests. (Yeah, I know... dream on...)
So, dear friends and radio operators, please understand that my annoyance is merely with self-righteous trolls and corrupt government agencies -- not with our excellent military, our dedicated MARS OP's, or our honored veterans and current service people.
God Bless America
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Well said. That's exactly how I see it. I see freebanding as a little harmless mischief, not a threat to military communications. That is patently ridiculous. If my 200 watt SSB signal is really a threat to US security, we are all screwed, because that means our military is incompetent.
The freebanders effectively own 11 meters. Kind of like when a group of vagrants occupy a vacant or condemned building. They are the de facto owners until somebody forcibly evicts them. Same for freeband. WE TOOK IT, plain and simple. Someday, somebody might push us out, but it hasn't happened yet!
Freebanding also, for me, dovetails into my Urban Exploration hobby. Steam tunnels, storm drains, old abandoned factories and hospitals, disused subway lines, etc. I love to explore the hidden urban landscapes that nobody sees. Not a threat to anybody, but unlawful all the same, usually.
BRAVO! And, as Highlander_821 commented: well said. This old timer's hat is off to you, sir.
I think you speak for many of us here on this forum, as well as on other forums, when you point out your frustration with both purposely antagonistic posters and inept government bureaucracies. Unfortunately, both of their ilk are all-too common in this day and age. The juvenile-acting forum trolls, like intentional QRM'ers, are easy to ignore; the money hungry government entities, not so much.
Keep on keepin' on, and I'll see you on the bands! 73
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