Hey wait a minute! I'm the one who does the begging around here, those thingys ought'a go to me. The nerve of some people, after all the time and effort I've put in to develop this 'mooching' routine, and somebody tries to steal it! Sniff, sniff... - 'Doc (the 'sniff' thingy is new, nice touch, isn't it?)
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What tuner do you use for legal limit power?
- Thread starter Moleculo
- Start date
Why does a Canadian have a 1' ruler?:laugh:
So Americans will understand what we are trying to show them better.
:w00t: I know this is a little mickey mouse tuner, but for my mobile I only use the stock 100w from my 857, bought a LDG z-100 and she tunes everything except 160m using a mag mount wilson 5000. I am not experienced at all with tuners and stuff yet, but was surprised to get a 1.5 or lower on most all the HF bands with a wilson mag mount.
'B_T',
If it'll do that, then I wouldn't call it a "mickey mouse" tuner because it certainly seems to be doing what it's supposed to do. 'Course, that doesn't mean that the antenna would produce a very usable signal on 160, or the other 'lower' HF bands (as if you couldn't figure that out, right?). But it would certainly load.
- 'Doc
If it'll do that, then I wouldn't call it a "mickey mouse" tuner because it certainly seems to be doing what it's supposed to do. 'Course, that doesn't mean that the antenna would produce a very usable signal on 160, or the other 'lower' HF bands (as if you couldn't figure that out, right?). But it would certainly load.
- 'Doc
true, I was referring to the power handling of it and its size. I know it probably wont be worth much on 80, and 40, but maybe get out on 20 or 17? I dunno what do ya think? (still trying to get my general)
I think that no matter what band you want to play with, the antenna you use should be at least something that'll produce a half way decent signal. An extremely short antenna such as that mobile one (short in relation to wave length) just isn't gonna make much of a signal on the lower HF bands no matter what the power fed to it, within reason. For example, on 160 through something like 20 meters (maybe), feeding that thing a kilowatt would probably have about the same results as using an antenna designed for whatever that frequency is being fed with 100 watts. That's probably sort of a 'stretch', but not by a whole lot...sort of. Less power just means you have to be able to 'work at it' a bit harder, not that it can't be done. If them QRP'ers can do it with miliwatts, you should be able to do it with 100, right?
Get the general and keep going! Then you don't have to remember all them sub-band edges...
- 'Doc
Get the general and keep going! Then you don't have to remember all them sub-band edges...
- 'Doc
"One of the foibles of commercially made tuners in the US is that they are usually rated in 'Pep' rather than average power. So, look for the CW power rating, which will give you a 'real' value to expect or just remember that things are in 'Pep'. {Why is that so? 'Cuz of the advertising of 'bigger' numbers means bigger sales.}"
they're rated for Peak Envelope Power because in any amplitude modulated application the amount of power present at the crest of the envelope can be as much as 2.66 times the measured average power. this applies to both AM and SSB modes of operation. if you want to eliminate any problems regarding limitations then what you want to do is use the minimum amount of inductance and the maximum amount of capacitance required to obtain the necessary match while minimizing network losses. this results in less internal heating and the highest possible output line current.
they're rated for Peak Envelope Power because in any amplitude modulated application the amount of power present at the crest of the envelope can be as much as 2.66 times the measured average power. this applies to both AM and SSB modes of operation. if you want to eliminate any problems regarding limitations then what you want to do is use the minimum amount of inductance and the maximum amount of capacitance required to obtain the necessary match while minimizing network losses. this results in less internal heating and the highest possible output line current.
I use a Johnson Kilowatt Matchbox for my main loop antenna. It doesn't utilize a balun, and has very low loss characteristics.
AC5CH,
Nothing wrong with the ol'Matchbox's made by 'Johnson'! They do have a couple of limitations though, the 'WARC' bands are not exactly 'designed in', since they weren't around when they were made. And since balanced feed lines were still fairly common when they were designed, they didn't have a balun built-in (different design anyway, 'link' coupling and all that). As long as you stick with the bands marked on the dial, it does just fine. Not as much "scootch" room as with tuners using different circuit designs, but lots of thingys that way.
The 'Matchboxes' are big. No miniaturization, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Ah well...
- 'Doc
Nothing wrong with the ol'Matchbox's made by 'Johnson'! They do have a couple of limitations though, the 'WARC' bands are not exactly 'designed in', since they weren't around when they were made. And since balanced feed lines were still fairly common when they were designed, they didn't have a balun built-in (different design anyway, 'link' coupling and all that). As long as you stick with the bands marked on the dial, it does just fine. Not as much "scootch" room as with tuners using different circuit designs, but lots of thingys that way.
The 'Matchboxes' are big. No miniaturization, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Ah well...
- 'Doc
freecell,
Regardless of the 'why' of it, thinking about tuners being rated in 'Pep' is a very handy way of thinking about it, saves you in most instances from not having a tuner 'big' enough. Especially if 'other' modes besides modulated ones are used.
The thingy about using the least amount of inductance possible is true for any and all tuners, one of 'them' things in knowing how to use them correctly. Lots of possible 'false' tunning settings that are less than the 'best'. Using the least amount of inductance/coil is a good general 'rule' for lots of things, not just tuners. (No intention in opening that can of 'worms'!)
- 'Doc
Regardless of the 'why' of it, thinking about tuners being rated in 'Pep' is a very handy way of thinking about it, saves you in most instances from not having a tuner 'big' enough. Especially if 'other' modes besides modulated ones are used.
The thingy about using the least amount of inductance possible is true for any and all tuners, one of 'them' things in knowing how to use them correctly. Lots of possible 'false' tunning settings that are less than the 'best'. Using the least amount of inductance/coil is a good general 'rule' for lots of things, not just tuners. (No intention in opening that can of 'worms'!
)- 'Doc
Hello,
I would recomend the Nye Viking MB V A its 1 hell of a Tunner!Ihad 2 going on 10 yrs and never a problem from 160 to 10 mtrs running 1 kw cw -1kw rtty-no arc overs or heating issues unless your loading(tuning weird z-swr-24:1) then it may heat up a bit,you wont have any problems with the L insulator melting tho-The N4XM is a great
tuner also built to order hw you want one-The Nye is no longer made ,but Ive seen them on E-bay going for $400-500 in a 9-9.5 shape,it will handle 4 kw-cw,rtty with no
problem and The N4XM can be ordered to handle 10 kw.Good luck.
Paul -K8PG -CW IS !!!!!
I would recomend the Nye Viking MB V A its 1 hell of a Tunner!Ihad 2 going on 10 yrs and never a problem from 160 to 10 mtrs running 1 kw cw -1kw rtty-no arc overs or heating issues unless your loading(tuning weird z-swr-24:1) then it may heat up a bit,you wont have any problems with the L insulator melting tho-The N4XM is a great
tuner also built to order hw you want one-The Nye is no longer made ,but Ive seen them on E-bay going for $400-500 in a 9-9.5 shape,it will handle 4 kw-cw,rtty with no
problem and The N4XM can be ordered to handle 10 kw.Good luck.
Paul -K8PG -CW IS !!!!!
I use the Palstar AT1K. A little pricey but will tune anything you put into it. Looks good, works flawlessly and put together well
My .02, if you know you like the hobby and are going to stick with it, just get a 3kW rated tuner straight away. Buy it once.
I have the Palstar AT1KM, (now the KP) and it is a nice piece of gear for sure, but now I wish I had the AT4K. Once you start to push a kW through anything....it's always nice to have some headroom.
The AT1KM will handle a reasonably resonant antenna at its power rating, but start to stretch something and it will arc, as will most tuners of lower power ratings.
I have the Palstar AT1KM, (now the KP) and it is a nice piece of gear for sure, but now I wish I had the AT4K. Once you start to push a kW through anything....it's always nice to have some headroom.
The AT1KM will handle a reasonably resonant antenna at its power rating, but start to stretch something and it will arc, as will most tuners of lower power ratings.
Hi Doc!
Yep, I love my Matchbox. However, you have a point, the tuning range is limited, and it doesn't work on all of the WARC bands or 160 meters. It is a big, heavy duty duty piece of equipment, though.
I'm going to have to save my pennies up and get one of those Palstar balanced line tuners as they will get a person on 160 meters with high efficiency and are really well made. Folks really seem to like them, too.
73
Steve
Yep, I love my Matchbox. However, you have a point, the tuning range is limited, and it doesn't work on all of the WARC bands or 160 meters. It is a big, heavy duty duty piece of equipment, though.
I'm going to have to save my pennies up and get one of those Palstar balanced line tuners as they will get a person on 160 meters with high efficiency and are really well made. Folks really seem to like them, too.
73
Steve
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