Ad hominem is where one attacks the person, not the argument, that isn't disagreement it's condemnation, however I'm not going to try and convince you either way, you'll see it how you see it
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¿ is height really might?
- Thread starter Wire Dawg
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Ad hominem is where one attacks the person, not the argument, that isn't disagreement it's condemnation, however I'm not going to try and convince you either way, you'll see it how you see it
Because you were so sure of this I thought you had modelled this and knew what you were talking about, but my curious nature got the better of me and I decided to carry out some rudimentary modelling of my own, and guess what, you're wrong. Not satisfied with suggesting the chap needs to study antenna theory, you now switch tack and suggest he may be unreasonable too and never satisfied.
Seriously bad form old chap, your argument is weak so you change tack to an out and out ad hominem, all this based on my one liner, I'm disappointed to be honest, I thought we were discussing antennas, not trying to rip someone a new one for no other reason than to point score
I don't understand why you'd condemn someone, who you've never met, never spoken to, and worst of all, don't even know his identity, I really don't.
Building a contest station takes money, there's no doubting that, it also takes dedication, and for a lot of people, just like race car builders or drag car builders, they want to push the boundaries, they want to be the best, they put their own money into their pursuit and we the general masses benefit from this, we get a better understanding, not just based on theory, but by real World results, I'd love to have the money to splash on such a station, but to be honest I'd be too lazy to put the effort in even I won the lotto.
For info this chap used to have a 250' tower when running phased quad antennas, but changed the mast when he went to Yagis, so I guess he knows what he was talking about
W5LZ, as for 30dB difference, why don't you believe this to be possible, you don't propose a different mechanism, but doubt the possibility anyway.
And then there are those who actively look to make something from nothing when in fact they didn't understand the statement in the first place and as a result make accusations against the other party due to their own misunderstanding. I attacked nor condemned no one nor did I say he is unreasonable. I said UNLESS he is unreasonable and never satisfied. Do not change what I said and don't go looking for an argument over something stupid. I simply made an observation regarding an apparent lack of understanding of basic theory based on the info presented.
BTW it would have been prudent to post those models, even if they were rudimentary as you say, just to show us how big a difference it really was going to make. Post up the EZNEC (or whatever) plot results.
A big black bug bit a big black bear and made the big black bear bleed blood.
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Wow, argument over a gain figure. 30 dB gain?
To put the magnitude of the number in perspective, 30 dB power gain is 1000 times gain.
That is a very significant number, so significant in fact that I would personally have trouble believing a much smaller number in its place. Even if the number presented was much smaller than it is, I would find myself asking questions much like the following:
Is it possible there may be an issue with the lower antenna system somewhere?
Is it possible the receive meter used to make the measurement is malfunctioning somewhere?
Is it possible that the ever changing DX conditions may have allowed for it that one time? And has this been duplicated since, preferably multiple times, or did it happen just the one time?
Was this measurement done on both sides of the conversation or just one?
Not defending the way it was attacked previously, but the number given is suspect at best. Also not helping it is the fact that it is second hand information.
The DB
To put the magnitude of the number in perspective, 30 dB power gain is 1000 times gain.
That is a very significant number, so significant in fact that I would personally have trouble believing a much smaller number in its place. Even if the number presented was much smaller than it is, I would find myself asking questions much like the following:
Is it possible there may be an issue with the lower antenna system somewhere?
Is it possible the receive meter used to make the measurement is malfunctioning somewhere?
Is it possible that the ever changing DX conditions may have allowed for it that one time? And has this been duplicated since, preferably multiple times, or did it happen just the one time?
Was this measurement done on both sides of the conversation or just one?
Not defending the way it was attacked previously, but the number given is suspect at best. Also not helping it is the fact that it is second hand information.
The DB
But it's only 5 S-units. ( if meter is in accord with the 6 db per S-unit standard )
I could accept this as being reasonable in a situation such as this.
:laugh: OK, now say that fast three times after having four or five stiff drinks.
That is a challenge I will accept.
I seem to be talented with ability to say tongue twisters well.
A box of biscuits,
A box of mixed biscuits,
And a biscuit mixer.
A tutor who tooted the flute tried to tutor two tooter's to toot, said the two to the tutor; "Is it harder to toot than to tutor two tooter's to toot.
Not necessarily.
I assume it was the same meter used on both readings since it was in the middle of a conversation so it is relative.The meter does not know which antenna was being used.
Flipping a switch is pretty much instantaneous and the difference would show up immediately. I have no doubt that it could happen if propagation was exactly right concerning being in the peak of one incoming wavefront while in the null of the other. Nulls can be more significant than peaks as they can often be 20 or 30 dB down from maximum.
Only northern35 can answer that one. I would suspect the same or nearly the same results on both ends.
If that is in reference to my post, I did not attack. I simple made an observation of what is not regularly exhibited and offered my opinion of what could possibly account for that kind of difference that one time. Just wanting to set the record straight.
Those were just a few examples of questions that pop into my head. And for the below quote.
I stand corrected.
The DB
I stand corrected.
The DB
C.K.,
I am bilingual. I speak American English and Red Neck. As everyone knows, Latin is a derivative of Red Neck'orum.
I had the choice of Spanish and Latin in high school. I'm of Italian decent and heard a lot of it at home, so figured Latin ought'a be easy! Yeah, right. Oh well, haven't used it in something like 50 years give or take a few. Stuck a bumper sticker saying, "Ubi Est Igne?" on the fire truck I worked off of, got in a bunch of trouble over that one. Now it's just dirty sayings that I can remember. Whoopy.
- 'Doc
I am bilingual. I speak American English and Red Neck. As everyone knows, Latin is a derivative of Red Neck'orum.
I had the choice of Spanish and Latin in high school. I'm of Italian decent and heard a lot of it at home, so figured Latin ought'a be easy! Yeah, right. Oh well, haven't used it in something like 50 years give or take a few. Stuck a bumper sticker saying, "Ubi Est Igne?" on the fire truck I worked off of, got in a bunch of trouble over that one. Now it's just dirty sayings that I can remember. Whoopy.
- 'Doc
"Ubi Est Igne?" :laugh: Yeah I can why you may have gotten a bit of grief over that. You are supposed to know that when you start to roll out the door. :laugh: Funny isn't it how over the years the only things left that we remember are the things that can get us in trouble.