102 whip .

[Marconi]

Thanks DB.

I can see how such periodicals would, by their nature, change the mix of things and for sure expand the content. Different contributors and new ideas, reader suggestions, corrections, also effect the content over time.

Maybe the term "counterpoise" is more concept rather than physical design.

I'm not sure what edition of the ARRL Antenna book you got your quote above out of

I posted the attribution for my quote above. Edition #19, section "The Vertical Monopole," bottom of 2-17 and 2-18. You can use the zoom feature (+) at the top of this PDF file to get a better view.

 

[Marconi]

When I once lived near the Florida gulf, I often drove my van down a boat ramp when the skip was rolling, rims just touched the water. I had a Shakespeare marine mount CB antenna on the roof. Got out like gang busters running only barefoot. That was the result of having a great “water plane." I just had to remind myself to back out before the tide got too high, least the engine would be flooded.

I had many experiences, off shore, in the Gulf of Mexico while fishing, and just as you noticed Sunbulls...the range and contacts were unbelievable. I also used the marine Shakespeare on land, however it seemed almost useless inland up about 60' in a tree. My mobile worked better.

 

[Tallman]

I had many experiences, off shore, in the Gulf of Mexico while fishing, and just as you noticed Sunbulls...the range and contacts were unbelievable. I also used the marine Shakespeare on land, however it seemed almost useless inland up about 60' in a tree. My mobile worked better.

Been there too. 200 miles offshore there is no ground clutter to absorb your signal.
Worked on the drilling rigs out there.I worked in the technical fields not rough neck on the drilling deck. I did rough neck on land for about six months.

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

The counterpoise is what the radiator works against as the name would suggest. The counterpoise radials can be the ground plane of the antenna. But unless the antenna is mounted at ground level the counterpoise would not be the ground plane of the antenna system. The ground plane for the antenna system is the plane below which ground exists. The earth.

 

[The DB]

The counterpoise is what the radiator works against as the name would suggest. The counterpoise radials can be the ground plane of the antenna. But unless the antenna is mounted at ground level the counterpoise would not be the ground plane of the antenna system. The ground plane for the antenna system is the plane below which ground exists. The earth.

Yet another different use of said word. Your explanation is different from all mentions listed above, including from Marconi's link... It is just more evidence to my point.

What counterpoise appears to be is a word that everyone is sure they "know" what it means, but no two people seem to agree fully... Also, no one seems to use it the way it was originally used either...

All this being said, I would like to know if you have any references that also agree with your use of the word?


The DB

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

Yet another different use of said word. Your explanation is different from all mentions listed above, including from Marconi's link... It is just more evidence to my point.

The counterpoise is the ground plane substitute when the antenna is mounted above ground. I have been reading a lot and learning a bunch in my short time here. I am facinated with RF power transmission.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoise_(ground_system)





All this being said, I would like to know if you have any references that also agree with your use of the word?


The DB

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

Somehow my reply is in the middle of your quote. Sorry.

 

[Marconi]

I think this issue is basically a petty argument without a difference.

Pre-13'th edition ARRL Antenna Books are all very similar. Its under the 160 meter antennas section of the book. How do I know they are all similar? I own a copy of all of them except 2'nd edition. That bugger has been a pain to get a hold of...

Again, I am pointing out that this is specifically in the 160 meters section of this version of the ARRL Antenna Book 12'th edition. If you want to make one for CB, you need to scale all measurements listed above to frequency...

Was it just an old outdated idea, or could it be they found something wrong in the previous ideas for this issue? Or, did they possibly determine that the term counterpoise only applied 160 meters and lower.

Maybe the term "counterpoise" is more concept rather than physical design.

Above I've posted a few comments from this thread, just as a reminder of what I think is a somewhat dubious question for CB operators to debate or discuss. A lot of CB BS has been generated by CB'rs reading ideas used at 160 meter frequencies and below...and in the process applying the ideas to a CB antenna setup.

IMO, I don't think most of us have anything to worry about with this enigmatic term.

In the PDF file below is the 1st paragraph from an article by LB Cebik.

DB, here is my reference to the full report by Cebik.
https://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/pdf-ant/article-ant-elvtd-rads-LBC.pdf

Apparently this question, "What is a Counterpoise?" has been asked for nearly a hundred years, and the ideas and opinions still vary widely...even among the best in the field of RF engineering and science.

 

[Tallman]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/resonant-antenna

 

[The DB]

Above I've posted a few comments from this thread, just as a reminder of what I think is a somewhat dubious question for CB operators to debate or discuss. A lot of CB BS has been generated by CB'rs reading ideas used at 160 meter frequencies and below...and in the process applying the ideas to a CB antenna setup.

IMO, I don't think most of us have anything to worry about with this enigmatic term.

In the PDF file below is the 1st paragraph from an article by LB Cebik.

DB, here is my reference to the full report by Cebik.
https://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/pdf-ant/article-ant-elvtd-rads-LBC.pdf

Apparently this question, "What is a Counterpoise?" has been asked for nearly a hundred years, and the ideas and opinions still vary widely...even among the best in the field of RF engineering and science.

I am well aware of that pdf.

People have been asking this question for 100 years? That is a bit much. Before the 60's all the texts I have seen have a similar descritption. Sure there are differences between them, but they are more similar than different, which is very different than some of the descriptions that we get today.


The DB

 

[Unit 75]

The best results I have always had was to use a stake mount for those rectangular holes on the box top part (use the furthest rear hole closest to the tailgate). First you don't need to drill any holes. Second, Do NOT use a spring. Screw the whip in the top of the mount after it's installed. Your coax fits nicely down the stake hole where you can tie it under the box beside the frame. Then I add a ground strap on the underneath side of the box fender part (where the brackets are that hold the box form) to the frame of the truck. I have seen too many people running their whips inside the box or too close to the cab which interferes with your SWR. I then used a leather strip cut from an old belt that is about 3" long that I mounted on the closest stake hole cover so I can bend the whip over when I need to go through a drive through or other low hanging structure.

 

[snippits75]

I have my 102 inch whip installed in about the same location as Unit 75 does...driver side rear near where a stake hole location would be. My old Toyota pickup does not have stake holes, so I had to improvise.

I needed a mount, so I bought a piece of aluminum flat bar 6 1/4" x 4 " and 1/4 inch thick. Drilled three 3/8 inch diameter holes into the rail of the truck bed, and then three 3/8 inch diameter holes into the flat bar. Mounted the flat bar to the bed rail with all stainless fittings with the long length of the flat bar over hanging the bed of the truck.

Needed a heavy duty stud, so I bought a Breedlove model #206 stud with ring terminal connection. The screw on the bottom of the #206 that secures the coax center conductor fits a 1/4 inch ring connector. I wanted the heavy duty model #207 with SO-239 connection, but it costs $41 plus shipping. The #206 costs $15.99 plus shipping.

I don't have a spring installed. SWR is 1.2:1 on CB channel 20 and 40, and 1.3:1 on channel 1. I have not done any additional bonding on the truck, but I will as funds allow.

I did take a 12 inch of piece of old RG58 coax, and stripped the copper shielding braid off of it to make a bonding cable. Looks like a 1/4 inch wide mini bonding cable after I flattened the cable. Installed a couple 1/4 inch ring connectors on it, and ran the cable from the truck bed to the grounding bolt on the mount.