How do you tune a suburban? Do you cut off the bumpers?
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2 Hot Competition Antenna Setup
- Thread starter dx77HML
- Start date
You raise and lower the tires...
Or put the kids in the front seat or back - depending on the launch angle required....
Or put the kids in the front seat or back - depending on the launch angle required....
Leave the guy be. He is just from a different culture is all. On some level he has a similar interest, namely antennas, even if his use and (mis)understanding of said antennas are different than most of ours. At the very least he has a different purpose and different goals for his antenna setup.
Their is a lot I could pick apart here, but I don't see the point. Actually, I am more curious if he thinks the people who were here in this 13 year old thread he revived are still here.
Their are pretty generic directions that anyone can follow to set up such systems, and it appears his dad followed them to a T. Ironically, the larger antenna spacing mentioned that they mistakenly assumed was because of a change in the metal of the vehicle should act to increase forward gain slightly. The strange thing is he actually posted the real reason why said difference happened later in the post...
The one thing I would want him to know is their is a reason that two of the setups are doing things like setting off alarms and the other is not has nothing to do with the vehicles, or the antennas. The cause of this difference lies elsewhere.
The DB
Their is a lot I could pick apart here, but I don't see the point. Actually, I am more curious if he thinks the people who were here in this 13 year old thread he revived are still here.
Their are pretty generic directions that anyone can follow to set up such systems, and it appears his dad followed them to a T. Ironically, the larger antenna spacing mentioned that they mistakenly assumed was because of a change in the metal of the vehicle should act to increase forward gain slightly. The strange thing is he actually posted the real reason why said difference happened later in the post...
The one thing I would want him to know is their is a reason that two of the setups are doing things like setting off alarms and the other is not has nothing to do with the vehicles, or the antennas. The cause of this difference lies elsewhere.
The DB
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I understood what he was talking about - no offense intended.
The method of phasing the antenna "array" was what got me even interested in the thread.
Grounding the rear "backdoor" is common in shootouts and you use what works for you. You don't want an epic fail on youtube showing your system smoking up the passenger compartment because you couldn't even keydown.
Now, when you place it (his level of experience) on the level of Amateur Grid Square capture - their elaborate mobile setups can get pretty extreme and seeing them on Field Day exercises is about par.
It's the Mercedes used as the "Aim Your Gun" feature - it ranks right up there.
The method of phasing the antenna "array" was what got me even interested in the thread.
Grounding the rear "backdoor" is common in shootouts and you use what works for you. You don't want an epic fail on youtube showing your system smoking up the passenger compartment because you couldn't even keydown.
Now, when you place it (his level of experience) on the level of Amateur Grid Square capture - their elaborate mobile setups can get pretty extreme and seeing them on Field Day exercises is about par.
It's the Mercedes used as the "Aim Your Gun" feature - it ranks right up there.
My comment wasn't specifically aimed at you Handy Andy, but more at the general posters since.
The so called "two hot" antenna setup is nothing more than two antennas in a 90 degree phased array. Peak gain happens at or just over 1/4 wavelength apart, so at first I thought using a coax with a higher velocity factor and a larger antenna spacing could give them more gain over the 6 foot spacing they like to use. I say could because then I remembered that vehicles, even large ones like the suburban, don't actually provide an adequate ground for a single antenna at said frequencies, and here we have two active antennas trying to use the same inadequate ground plane...
The system you are referring to (they call it a "bounce back" system) does have more gain potential than his "two hot" system, and is easier to set up. It is also scalable letting you add additional elements, an old friend of mine around here had such a setup, generally a driven and a reflector, but he could reconfigure it to have four elements, just couldn't drive around that way. Its really nothing more than a yagi on a car though...
In the end the only thing that is important is he is having fun, right? If he really wants to learn the true nature of how antennas work, this is a good forum for him to read every now and again...
The DB
The so called "two hot" antenna setup is nothing more than two antennas in a 90 degree phased array. Peak gain happens at or just over 1/4 wavelength apart, so at first I thought using a coax with a higher velocity factor and a larger antenna spacing could give them more gain over the 6 foot spacing they like to use. I say could because then I remembered that vehicles, even large ones like the suburban, don't actually provide an adequate ground for a single antenna at said frequencies, and here we have two active antennas trying to use the same inadequate ground plane...
The system you are referring to (they call it a "bounce back" system) does have more gain potential than his "two hot" system, and is easier to set up. It is also scalable letting you add additional elements, an old friend of mine around here had such a setup, generally a driven and a reflector, but he could reconfigure it to have four elements, just couldn't drive around that way. Its really nothing more than a yagi on a car though...
In the end the only thing that is important is he is having fun, right? If he really wants to learn the true nature of how antennas work, this is a good forum for him to read every now and again...
The DB
I understand,
When you see the "Rod Of God" rolling up on a Chevy Van , it does give new meaning to what ButFuzz was talking about with the re-released Eric Church version of Sammy Johns - Chevy Van.
A Van - Similar to the ones you'd see Dr. Drew driving in the movie "Uncle Drew" - right down to the 8-Track (Lear Siegler days - wow)
It was always a good excuse to gather up the kids and go for a BBQ with some neighbors you've known on the radio - always turned out better than a party line phone - you got everyone involved - great way to end summer before school started...
Those were the days...
When you see the "Rod Of God" rolling up on a Chevy Van , it does give new meaning to what ButFuzz was talking about with the re-released Eric Church version of Sammy Johns - Chevy Van.
A Van - Similar to the ones you'd see Dr. Drew driving in the movie "Uncle Drew" - right down to the 8-Track (Lear Siegler days - wow)
It was always a good excuse to gather up the kids and go for a BBQ with some neighbors you've known on the radio - always turned out better than a party line phone - you got everyone involved - great way to end summer before school started...
Those were the days...
6ft distance isn't enough for co-phasing, needs to be 9ft. Also you want to be doing all the bonding you can on the vehicle to maximise what RF ground the vehicle can provide....read the bonding page at www.k0bg.com
Shadetree Mechanic
Delaware Base Station 808
Very interesting, now I am thinking about a "Two Hot" setup for my garage. I just need to get another Star Duster. I have seen a guy around here with two antennas on his 'burban, now I know enough to ask him if it is "Two Hot" or "Bounce Back".
Knew a guy many moons ago who had four Radio Shack base-loaded antennas on his Ford Galaxie 500. One above each fender well. Used to switch between the different ones depending on the location of the person he was talking to.
Then one day he showed up with four on the roof for a total of eight and claimed he was using all of them at once. Said the co-mingling was an exact science invented by a fella called Dangerous Bob in St. Louie. That wasn't you was it, DB?
Ford Galaxie, Midland CB, eight antennas, Gary Puckett and the Union Gap on the eight-track. Yep, Andy, those were the days.
Then one day he showed up with four on the roof for a total of eight and claimed he was using all of them at once. Said the co-mingling was an exact science invented by a fella called Dangerous Bob in St. Louie. That wasn't you was it, DB?
Ford Galaxie, Midland CB, eight antennas, Gary Puckett and the Union Gap on the eight-track. Yep, Andy, those were the days.
These Millennials' have gotta' lot of catchin' up to do...
If you look up end-fire arrays, they are similar to cophase harness - but instead of a branch off to two EQUALLY distant antennas - like on a Semi-rig - these are fed one to another with the length of the coax and antenna one is fed first then the other - like a string daisy chain sort of thing - the length of coax between sets up the phase and tune for the twin phase antenna system (End fire arrays)
If you look up end-fire arrays, they are similar to cophase harness - but instead of a branch off to two EQUALLY distant antennas - like on a Semi-rig - these are fed one to another with the length of the coax and antenna one is fed first then the other - like a string daisy chain sort of thing - the length of coax between sets up the phase and tune for the twin phase antenna system (End fire arrays)
Then one day he showed up with four on the roof for a total of eight and claimed he was using all of them at once. Said the co-mingling was an exact science invented by a fella called Dangerous Bob in St. Louie. That wasn't you was it, DB?
Never heard of him or this so called co-mingling idea, even back then before I knew what I know now I think I would have laughed at it. You should have asked him to explain that "exact science"...
The DB
Shadetree Mechanic
Delaware Base Station 808
With the eight-antenna setup his could easily out talk all of us. One day after tiring of my badgering, he finally relented and shared his secret. He was actually only using a single antenna. One of the four on the roof. The other seven were for looks. In his trunk---a linear.
Something none of the rest of us had.He stuck to his Dangerous Bob story though, saying while he himself could never make it work, he had an uncle (or cousin) in Fayetteville who swore by it. And last he heard, Bob had been hired by Hy-Gain.
And now you know the rest of the story.
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I have never seen the advantage in the field over the one driven element. Plus it's far easier to tune. Guess what ever works.
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