Antenna suggestion for HF bands

[technician]

In this thread I mentioned that I'm looking into purchasing a ham radio primarily for talking on the 11 and 10 meter bands, then going on to get a license for the rest of the HF bands. My question here is can one purchase an antenna that is capable of transmitting and receiving on the entire HF band (or most of it) for a mobile, in this case a Jeep, without being 8' long?

Right now I have a firestik 3' on my Jeep. It fits perfect especially for offroading however from what I'm reading that won't get me much of the HF bands other than 11 meter (and possibly 10 meter?).

 

[freecell]

"My question here is can one purchase an antenna that is capable of transmitting and receiving on the entire HF band (or most of it) for a mobile, in this case a Jeep, without being 8' long?"

NO.

 

[technician]

Heh, I guess that answers my question. What's the next best thing then?

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

there are a few (especially screw driver type antennas like these)

http://www.kj7u.com/

http://www.antennex.com/preview/Folder01/screwdrv/screwdrv.htm

http://www.hiqantennas.com/

http://www.ameritron.com/products.php?prodid=SDA-100

http://www.opektech.com/Products_Antennas_Mobile.html

these should get you started
i was looking to show you 2 others

a whip type antenna made in austrailia
and another screwdriver antenna known very well like HiQ

but these should give you a idea

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

"My question here is can one purchase an antenna that is capable of transmitting and receiving on the entire HF band (or most of it) for a mobile, in this case a Jeep, without being 8' long?"

NO.

What about the Yaesu ATAS-120 seen here at http://radio33.ifrance.com/radio33/fiches/yaesu/images/atas120.jpg ? I could not hotlink to it for some reason. Copy and paste the url.It is only 5 foot 3 inches long. It is not the best by any means but the question was about what is available for something less than 8 feet long. I am using an 8 foot whip with a Yaesu FC-40 auto coupler and it works great.

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

hey QRN seems that link isn't working
at least on my end

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I noticed that too but you beat me to it. Copy and paste the URL above.

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

ok...that works..... :bounce

 

[Moleculo]

My question here is can one purchase an antenna that is capable of transmitting and receiving on the entire HF band (or most of it) for a mobile, in this case a Jeep, without being 8' long?

Actually, yes there are several. I won't say they work great, but they will do what your question is asking:

The High Sierra Sidekick is a very popular one.

The Little Tarheel II by Tarheel Antennas is another. I have owned this antenna and it wasn't too bad for what it was.

The Yaesu ATAS is another, but I wouldn't own one (I don't care for the design)

Keep in mind with all of these short antennas that they work better on the higher bands and they are limited on the power you can use. But at least they'll get you on the air....

 

[Hamin' X]

Outbacker makes some 6 and 6.5 models. Only problem is, that you have to change the tap for the wander lead to change bands.

Outbacker Antennas

Rich

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

that was the antenna i was trying to remember.....lol

now you have a full set of choices to chose from

 

[technician]

I like the sound of those Outback Antennas. I'll have to contact the company and see if they have any photos available.

Does height on an antenna make a difference besides being able to grab radio waves better? I mean, could you technically build a 2' HF antenna, just sacrificing range?

 

[Beetle]

You need to get an antenna book or two and learn a bit about the subject.

CAN you build a two-foot antenna for 40 meters (example), just sacrificing range? Certainly. How much "range" are you willing to sacrifice? I have a dummy load that radiates enough that you can hear it two blocks away with 100 watts into it. I suspect that a two-foot antenna on 40 meters would be about the same.

 

[technician]

That makes sense. I was just wondering about the whole height issue, does an antenna require a certain height to function on a certain band. From your statement you don't, it will function however not ideally. I'm heading over to Wikipedia after posting this message to see what I can dredge up on antennas. Thanks!

 

[W5LZ]

"Does height on an antenna make a difference besides being able to grab radio waves better? I mean, could you technically build a 2' HF antenna, just sacrificing range?"
... Yes, and no, sort of. An antenna's length is frequency dependant. For the sake of making it all a little easier to understand, assume that a 1/4 wave length (a wave length = the distance one cycle of RF travels in one second) is the minimum length usable for a mobile. On 2 meters that 1/4 wave length is something close to 19 inches. On 11 meters, about 9 feet. And on 40 meters, something like 30 feet, and 60 feet for 80 meters. Shortening the antenna means that it looses efficiency and it's radiation pattern's shape changes. The greater the shortening, the worse the antenna's performance compared to it's 'full length' version. If that reduced performance still does what you want it to, then it's not much of a big deal. Just don't expect miracles! LOL
There is no such thing as an efficient, all band antenna. The lower the frequency the worse it's performance (assuming it's of some 'practical' length that isn't too obnoxious/ugly/dangerous to low flying planes). At one extreme, a 2 foot antenna on 80 meters is just slightly less efficient than a dummy load, and that's not much of an exageration at all. Convenience is another thing that causes suffering. If it'll change length with the flip of a switch, and if it isn't too 'shortened' to start with, it just doesn't work all that well. It WILL put one @#$$'of'a dent in your wallet, be ugly, hit stuff. Efficiency increases with inconvenience and 'ugliness'.
Hope 'Wikipedia' helps, but don't expect miracals...
- 'Doc