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AstroPlane up and Testing

This is a photo of the mast attachment. Its kind of hard to get a good one now that the antenna is up but will work on it latter today and see if I can get some better ones.

Reply to Marconi;
Starduster, if I said I was concerned about the SWR you saw, then I misspoke.
No misunderstanding what so ever.
Very nice application for the mount and sturdy, but how do you adjust the down element on the side under the feed point?

Do you have documentation for the Antenna Specialists model and if so, would you post it here. I don't think I have ever seen such a model and I would like a copy for my files?

I collect all I can on CB antennas.
 
One of the improvements on my copy is the ability to adjust the length of the down legs that go to the loop on the bottom. I use two different sizes of tube here so one slides into the other at the cross support. I am also using collars instead of hose clamps at the joints. I think one of these photos show it. I do have an original never assembled Astroplane and Astrobeam for reference so if you are talking about the manual yes I do have them and if you cannot find them on CB tricks.com I will copy them. I have to check if I can post a pdf file or not though.

 

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i doubt you would really need 35 ohm coax,but if you were desperate for the perfect match you could always parallel two 75 ohm coax runs,that would give a 37.5 ohm matching section which is as near as dammit and 75 ohm coax is commonly available.

Are you sure on that idea of paralleling two 75 ohm coaxes? I don't think we are talking pure DC resistance here. I may be wrong though.
 
Hey Starduster & Marconi. Good luck with the AstroPlane project! Speaking of the retros, I still have a NOS A/S Antenna Specialist Starduster in the box if anyone is interested. Make a reasonable offer.

Good luck!

I would probaply give you $100 + shipping for it but things like that would probably go for more on Ebay if your into that.
 
SD'r, I checked CB Tricks and they do have 25> items for Antenna Specialists, but the AstroPlane is not included. I would appreciate a copy if you would. The upload attachment feature allows pdf files up to 47 mb.
 
bravo!

that is very cool.

if you can reproduce the parts, you should start selling these on ebay.
cant buy an astroplane these days.

im guessing those guy wires are made of rope and not metal.

im curious to know if there is an increase in your SWR when these guy ropes get wet?

i have an astroplane up and wanted to guy from about the same point you did.

again, a very cool build,
LC
 
bravo!

that is very cool.

if you can reproduce the parts, you should start selling these on ebay.
cant buy an astroplane these days.

im guessing those guy wires are made of rope and not metal.

im curious to know if there is an increase in your SWR when these guy ropes get wet?

i have an astroplane up and wanted to guy from about the same point you did.

again, a very cool build,
LC
Thanks and yes they are non matalic, Don't know if wet changes anything yet.
 
Good point LC. Guy lines attached closer to the antenna are better for support, and for sure it is best to use something strong that is non-conductive.

I guy using 3/16" polyester, very limited stretch, double braided, UV resistant antenna guy line. It sheds water and does not appear to get wet. My guy attachment is about 6'-7' feet below the bottom hoop. In my case I did it so I could get the antenna up a little higher without having to reset the guys.
 
SD'r, I checked CB Tricks and they do have 25> items for Antenna Specialists, but the AstroPlane is not included. I would appreciate a copy if you would. The upload attachment feature allows pdf files up to 47 mb.
Here you go.
 

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Good point LC. Guy lines attached closer to the antenna are better for support, and for sure it is best to use something strong that is non-conductive.

I guy using 3/16" polyester, very limited stretch, double braided, UV resistant antenna guy line. It sheds water and does not appear to get wet. My guy attachment is about 6'-7' feet below the bottom hoop. In my case I did it so I could get the antenna up a little higher without having to reset the guys.
Thats the same stuff I use also.
 
My intention is to leave the top hat alone on this antenna and to also to build an Astrobeam.

I had an Astrobeam once and liked the front to back rejection. I am not quite sure if I can find the 35 ohm coax for the matching system or if it is really needed. I know some guys had a better match without it. Should have the beam ready soon, most of the parts are made.

Hey Starduster, sorry I put you to the trouble of posting the manuals. It was Wire Weasel that posted he had a A/S Starduster for sale, not an AstroPlane. You have the real macoy AstroPlane made by Avanti.

About your beam idea. What did you do about the dual RG59u transformer before when you had a AP Beam?

I don't have the beam, but I did modify my TopOne with a full 1/4 wave element in the top of the antenna and I did learn something during the process. Since you have questions, maybe what I experienced will help you as you setup you new AP beam. I have to admit however, all of this is speculation on my part, but it makes sense to me.

Here is what I found.

Idea #1. The beam manual says to make the top element about 77 5/8" long from the mounting plate stud on top of the mast to boom bracket and that is very short for a 1/4 wave element. That is all the material they supply for the top radiator however. For the full 1/4 wave element you see in the picture I posted earlier, I made my element 79.5" long from the AP hub to start with. I did this even though I thought it had to be short. I did add 2" for the beam adapter section called the plate that holds the top stud for the radiator however. I ended up with 79.5"

Below is the results I got with my analyzer scanning a full bandwidth curve. You will notice that the length suggested in the Avanti Manual is way short and thus the antenna resonance is up there almost to 28 mhz. You will notice that it makes a nice match starting at 27.605 mhz. It is very flat with a bandwidth about 60 channel wide and at a low SWR. There is a little reactance in the match however and that is probably why we see a 1.55:1 SWR at 27.205 mhz.Marconi Antenna Work Sheets AstroPlane #1 073109.jpgNow if you look down frequency to 27.205 mhz, where the antenna should be matched and resonant by the factory, you will see the resistive part of the match is approximately 33 ohms on my chart. My VA1 reads a few ohms low, so the feed point resistance was maybe closer to 38 ohms. I'm not accounting for the transformation or reactance here, so again this is just speculation. However, this factor might help explain why Avanti includes the 37.5 ohm jumper, to transform the feed point match back up to near 50 ohms on the beam.

My opinion would be however, if this is the way your beam might look with this short element, the very nice broad bandwidth should make working 11 meters do just fine if you could live with a 1.5 SWR.

Idea #2. There is another factor that has to be considered with multi-element antennas. It is more simple and may be more practical. When you place another element or two close to and parallel to the driven element, the affect might be to make the short driven element Avanti provides to look a bit longer electrically. If this is so, then it would help to bring the resonance down a bit. If this is what happens, and the SWR is lower, CB guys would go this route---and leave the jumper off. This is a very wide spaced beam and I don't think this response would be very remarkable, so the beam may work fine with or without the jumper.

edit: disregard Idea #2 for now, 'Doc raises a point that these words are not well thought out.

I have wondered for a long time why this beam had that 6' jumper in the kit, but I never had an idea why. After I added a full 1/4 wave element to my Top One, and I saw how it responded, being very short---this idea came to me.

Starduster, do you remember what happened before regarding this jumper?
 
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Marconi,
About that thing with adding elements to a driven element and changing it's resonance. Adding those elements won't change the driven element's resonance frequency, but it will change it's impedance at the feed point, it will lower it. That can certainly change the SWR, but has no affect on resonance. (SWR has nothing to do with resonance, as you know.) If that 6 foot length of coax included with that antenna just happens to be 75 ohms with a VF of .66, you'd have a 1/4 wave transformer which would raise that lower than 50 ohm input impedance to something closer to 50 ohms. Right??
- 'Doc
 
Marconi,
About that thing with adding elements to a driven element and changing it's resonance. Adding those elements won't change the driven element's resonance frequency, but it will change it's impedance at the feed point, it will lower it. That can certainly change the SWR, but has no affect on resonance. (SWR has nothing to do with resonance, as you know.) If that 6 foot length of coax included with that antenna just happens to be 75 ohms with a VF of .66, you'd have a 1/4 wave transformer which would raise that lower than 50 ohm input impedance to something closer to 50 ohms. Right??
- 'Doc

'Doc, you're right, my words do not describe the idea very well. I think about this issue in terms of capacitance and inductance, but in this case I tried to describe my thinking in terms using shorter and longer instead, and I got the Idea #2 all corn'fused and illogical. I made an edit to the original post to ignore Idea #2.

The AP beam seems to always get high marks from users, and it is a pretty complicated device both in construction and function. So I'm surprised that we get so many good reports on the beam. When the issue about the transforming harness is discussed, it often sounds like a discussion on: "...I was fooling my SWR meter when I changed my coax and made it longer or shorter."

Starduster, the APB supplies the material for the top element of the driven element as follows: 1/2" x 48" and mark off 7" to be inserted into the bottom section 5/8" x 36" = 77" total. I figure that this element is electrically about 79" long overall if we consider the mounting bracket and plate that it sits on which I figure to be about 2" additional.

However, when I made my Top One into a full 1/4 wave radiator on top, I got it resonant @ 27.205 with an 87.5" radiator. So, I don't see how the beam can work with resonance at 27.205 while the top radiator is only 79" long unless, like I suggested, the director and reflector make the difference.

Will you be using an analyzer when you build your beam? I sure would be interested to know what kind of numbers you are seeing at resonance and at the ends of your <1.5:1 and your <2:1 bandwidths.

You will figure it out when you get your APB up and working I'm sure, so keep us posted on your progress.
 

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