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bird43 and 2by8 what should i see?

fnkycoldmedina

fnkycoldmedina

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2005
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ok guys .my first bird43 wattmeter and 1000h slug.in about 45minutes i am heading out to make a run and i plan on testing it out .i deadkey 400 and let it swing for skipshooting.i only know what my amps do in peak numbers at this point.my deadkey should be very near the same i will assume?

what should i see ballpark on a bird43 with 1000h slug hitting it with a 2by8 on stock volts.i have a charging system that supports this .i am thinking 1000bird?well i am hoping..lol.....

after i get some baseline readings with this new meter i have a peak kit to install into it .
this peak kit also has a slug multiplier which is setup for 2x and 5x .which means when activated my 1000 slug can read 2000 or 5000
vice versa for other slugs.this kit is peak and average and you can actually adjust the multiplier to suit your needs.2x,3,4x,up to 5x.pretty cool.save money on slugs.
found it on ebay for 60 bucks plus 5 shipping.if anyone wants to try one .

i will give my review of that item after i have had time to try it awhile and get some baselines to go by .

so what should a 2by8 on a stock system that holds the volts do?thanks
 

ok guys did some checking and heres the results.
on low deadkey was 400...no swing....
on high deadkey was 800 ..swing backwards to 400???wtf?
i am new to bid meters so please help.
do bird meters not show swing until a peak kit is added?
deadkey numbers are pretty much right on with my rf limited pw-3000 but i get no forward swing at all unless i back the deadkey up real far.
bad slug?
bad meter?
bird gurus chime in here .
this is a 2by8 that shows well over 2k peak on my other meters.
it will show the deadkeys...but at 800 swingsback to 400....on a 2by8???hhmmmm.........i,m new to this bird stuff so help me out here.
 
Well your carrier (dead key) should be 25% of the total rated output for proper modulation. Your audio level should make that reach full output from that point. Not sure what a 2x8 is supposed to put out though.
 
The amp is not swinging much. The Bird is an average reading meter........not peak. The peak kit will make it like a Dosy so maybe that will give you the readings you want.
Just guessing on the 2x8 output if set up and driven right you should see around 600-700 watts max. The transistors may be rated at 100 watts each but you can't get 100% out of them....maybe 50 or a little better if you are lucky. If you want to see forward on a Bird you have to being doing it. Set the dead key at 250-300 and let it go. Bird meters will hurt your feelings if you are used to a peak meter. Maybe find a W4 Drake meter as it will show a little more power than the Bird.
 
I was wondering if you are seeing any dimming going on when you key down - then modulate?
Maybe you aren't getting all of the power to the amp that you think you are - is that possible?
Have you gotten a radio check from a reliable source?
These questions remain...
 
You should still see some forward movement with the AVG numbers. It sounds to me like you're overdriving the amp.
 
ok i have a 250 or better amp alt ...the builder says it spun about 280 but i cant verify that ..it works better than my 200 amp i had previously.i have a 1000cca battery.i can hold voltage .
still not seeing forward out this thing .if i back the deadkey up with the variable to say 100 then i get 300 forward swing...on a 2by8?wtf?this cant be right.

another thing ...if i use say a 6foot jumper my deadkey will be 400...
if i get the bird right up next to the amp like with a very short jumper..a couple inches at best ...my deadkey will shoot way up ..like 800.and back swing to 400.

i dont get it .maybe bird isnt the way for me?

i have a peak kit to put in but cant see why i shouldnt see at least 800 forward swing on average?
the same amp on my rf limited pw-3000 peaks well over 2k.
 
I don't think I would blame the Bird meter.
What kind of SWR do you have with the antenna with the amp out of line?
That is - plugging your antenna straight into your radio with just an SWR meter an 3 ft jumper?
WIth this much power, would you have any way to get a hold of an antenna analyzer? What kind of antenna are you using?
Are you running 6 ga wire for the amp - or what size is it?
How are the power wires attached?
 
Congratulations, you have been introduced to real life!
First, that "2 x 8" doesn't tell you anything without knowing what those eight transistors are.., '2879's, 2N2222's?
'Swinging' backwards? I figure you know what that is as well as everyone else. You also know why it happens.
Is that Bird meter with the 'peak' kit lying to you? Not if you installed the kit correctly. It's the first time I've heard of a 'slug' multiplier, didn't know Bird made such a thing, or why they would for that matter. You're on your own with that one.

Ready for some more of that 'real life' stuff? Feed that amplifier a single tone (non-voice, which is always a multi-tone). No difference between average or peak readings from that Bird or any other peak reading meter, is there? That doesn't mean the meter's broke by the way, that's absolutely normal. It's also what's typically called your 'dead key'. Now feed that thing a two-tone signal. That'll give you the 'peak' reading. Both of those reading ought to be steady, nonfluctuating. If they aren't steady, you're doing something wrong. (If you do any of it with a microphone, you're doing it wrong to start with, the readings don't mean much.)
Lots of information can be had from those two ways of testing things. That information seldom coincides with what you 'typically' hear/think, but it's still the truth. Makes you wonder about what you've been hearing, huh? Draw your own conclusions.
- 'Doc
 
what kind of radio you using?
it can also depend on type of tune up the radio had

coax r u using mini 8x or what
 
ok .my install is as follows.280 amp big case ford 3g alt .2gauge from alt to battery,4 gauge from battery to amp .i,ll get out there and see what the holding voltage is .been awhile.stock volts though.
radio is a general lee.(curious to see now what a good old 29 will do on here)sparky tuned ..if that means anything..lol.
radio keys 3 swing 50 peak on my peak reader .been going by this meter for years so its all i have to compare to .

dont have slug small enough to do radio readings yet .so gotta wait and see,might have to re tune the radio and lower drive?

curious to see what a low keying 29 would do now ....sold everything...:headbang
i installed the peak kit and it works great .i now see 17-1800 peak .but i still want to work out this average forward reading issue .

and yes the multplier works .i only own the 1000h slug .to read peak from the amp i hit x2 and whalla ..i now read like a 2000 slug .seemed to work great .and you can set it for 2x,3x,4x,5,x.....just 2 scales though ....you totaly calibrate this board yourself .its pretty slick i gotta say .
just do a ebay search for bird 43 peak kit and you will find it .59.99 plus 5.00 ship.
nicely done boards and only require 1 battery.not a bird board no.but built after some reviewed design,go read about it.

need a 25 or 50 watt slug to start testing the radio .taking donations..lol...

ps-antenna is wilson 5000 mag .never had a problem.stock coax.
 
Last edited:
My Guess...
Your radio is swinging 50 watts into a 2X8 pill amp? Isn't that overloading the drivers a wee bit too much? I could be waaay wrong; but it seems a bit much to me. I know that my Texas Star 350DX w/2-2879's needs as little as 1 watt and no more than 30 watts top. This doesn't have a driver stage for it in the amp - either. Do you have a radio that can put out 2-20 watts - or can you borrow one for a test session?
Thinking out loud...
 
all out of radios now guys ,sold em /traded to get this bird setup going .i been running a dual final radio into first a 2by6 for 4 years and now a 2by8 for over a year .never had a problem .always set them up on my peak reader .

now this bird is a whole new ballfield,its gonna take time n money but i,ll get it right .curious to see myself what a good 29 would do as far as average watts and pushing the box .
now with the peak function working on the bird now i see 17-1800 bird peak watts .
just cant get it swinging average watts from a 400 deadkey.gotta work on that .
heres a question i asked a few places .
where should the bird meter be after the amp?
within a few inches?
couple to the amp if possible?
3 foot jumper?
i ask this because the deadkey reading gets higher the closer you get to the output of the amp .with a 3 foot jumper on low power from radio i see 400 deadkey out the 2by8.
if i bring the meter within inches of the amp the deadkey is way high ,like 7-800.......always been this way now matter what the meter .i just always used a longer jumper and it read 400 then and would swing over 2k peak easy.
i figured a 2by8 would do 1000 bird so i figured i,d be ok at this deadkey level and been running that way for years and everyone says it sounds top shelf.
now put it on the bird and we got a whole new story ...lol...
what have i gotten myself into now?lmao....:tongue:
 

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