Echolink, Helpful Tool or Internet Chat?

[Watergate]

I am just curious what people on this forum think about VOIP services like Echolink or IRLP. I like the fact that I can connect to a repeater and have my signal broadcast in Sydney Australia. You hear a few "wait, was that a KF call?"

However, yesterday I connected to a node in Northern England, and was told by a rather unfriendly fellow that he wouldn't participate in "internet chat". First time that has happened to me, but I haven't had the radio installed very long either, so maybe I should expect that more often.

Personally, my thoughts on it are if you use a computer to connect to a repeater, then a radio is involved. If you use your radio to connect through a repeater, then a radio is involved. If a radio is involved, I don't call it internet chat.

I still have more fun making the contacts over the air on HF, but as I only have a 10 meter radio for hf right now, and 10 has been more off than on lately, I play around with Echolink. I doubt that I would use it much if I had a full HF rig and could use the current open bands. But until then, I will continue to use Echolink, regardless of the "unfriendly fellows" out there.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I am just curious what people on this forum think about VOIP services like Echolink or IRLP. I like the fact that I can connect to a repeater and have my signal broadcast in Sydney Australia. You hear a few "wait, was that a KF call?"

You can do that on HF and have a lot more fun and feeling of accomplishment doing it. Using echolink is akin to using Skype, email chat, or a cell phone.

However, yesterday I connected to a node in Northern England, and was told by a rather unfriendly fellow that he wouldn't participate in "internet chat". First time that has happened to me, but I haven't had the radio installed very long either, so maybe I should expect that more often.

Yep get ready for more of it. The fellow you encountered probably had encountered a lot of people using his local repeater tying it up by connecting via the internet and he wants to talk to his local buds and not be bothered with internet surfers.

Personally, my thoughts on it are if you use a computer to connect to a repeater, then a radio is involved. If you use your radio to connect through a repeater, then a radio is involved. If a radio is involved, I don't call it internet chat.

You have your opinion as to what constitutes radio and so do others. It is really a pretty far stretch to call Echolink radio when you use a computer to connect to a repeater somewhere. By that same convention using your cell phone is the same thing, after all it is a radio transmitter/receiver, so why not just use it instead? It is just as much radio as Echolink.

I still have more fun making the contacts over the air on HF, but as I only have a 10 meter radio for hf right now, and 10 has been more off than on lately, I play around with Echolink. I doubt that I would use it much if I had a full HF rig and could use the current open bands. But until then, I will continue to use Echolink, regardless of the "unfriendly fellows" out there.

Pretty soon I suppose there will be a big push to have a special award for WAS or DXCC with special endorsement for Echolink. :headbang

If someone wants to stay off the HF bands and go play on the computer or 2m rig and pretend they are DXing then I say go right ahead. It leaves the bands less crowded for the rest of us to really work the juicy DX in the far corners of the earth.


BTW before Echolink was ever thought of amateurs in Canada had access to a transponder on one of the geostationary Anik communications satellites and repeaters all across Canada were linked to it. You could use your HT in Halifax and bring up a Vancouver repeater or one in the Far North. Nobody back then really considered it a true radio contact even tho it used 2m on each end and a satellite radio link in the middle. It was just one of those novelty things that was neat but since the users on either end had no true control over the entire comm link it was never considered that big of a deal to make a contact.

 

[Watergate]

I do respect your opinions on the subject CKW. I have to say however that for someone new to the hobby that is still starting out with buying equipment, it is fun to play around with.

I get zero sense of accomplishment making an international contact on Echolink. I did on any DX contacts I have made on 10 or 11 meters.

Believe me, I would rather work DX on HF, but for now, until I can get set up, I only have 10 and 11 meters.

I think it has it's place. I also know that it will never replace a real DX contact in my eyes.

Let me also say this, I do feel like it's cheating to use the computer as the radio. Just my personal opinion. I use my FT-7900 to connect to an echolink repeater, and have that repeater link to another repeater.

 

[Mudfoot]

I have played with it a few times. I have no real opinion on it either way.

Most people I hear on our node are locals that are out of the area, like on vacation, work, or people that used to live in the area and connect to chat with old friends.
I suppose they could do the same with a phone or Internet chat. I guess it makes them feel better having "radio" involved to an extent.

Echolink really seems to get a bad rap. None of the other nontraditional modes have been slammed so hard when they were first envisioned. SSB was a red headed step child when it was derived.

 

[Watergate]

I guess one could argue about nearly anything other than radio to radio as being "cheating."

You used a repeater to talk to a guy 75 miles away? How dare you? In the good ol' days I had to climb a mountain barefoot in the snow carrying a generator to do that.

I think it is fun. Nothing more than that, just fun.

I think, more than any other reason, it gets a bad rap because two hams can chat with no radio involved whatsoever. I'm not up to date on the rest of the services, but I'm not thinking you can do that with DSTAR or WiRES.

 

[K1IF]

VOIP is a great addition to amateur radio. I do not think of it as working "DX" rather a way to work stations and repeaters but not DX. When the solar cycle is at a low many nay sayers will be using it. It's also great because alot of hams can no longer put up antennas (just to many restrictions) and older hams can now also rejoin the ham community while living in nursing and retirement communities.

Without the introduction of computers into our hobby it would have died. What about today's hf rigs that have processors in them? Is that cheating?

I currently have a gateway running Echolink, IRLP, ALLSTAR and DSTAR A group of us are bringing 1 area where all VOIP can talk to each other ...even Mototurbo, P25 and all other digital formats and analog as well.

I will continue to use all methods of communication available!

ENJOY HAM RADIO to it's fullest!

 

[W5LZ]

Both of the idea in the title are correct. EchoLink is a helpful tool. EchoLink is also an internet 'chatroom'. It's only relation to radio in any form is that an amateur license is required to join it, but a radio is not required. EchoLink is 'structured' -like- amateur radio to act as a 'tool', or a substitute for actually using a radio. Since it doesn't depend on propagation it is not -really- like radio at all. There is definitely a difference, and I don't think it would be very difficult to see that. I can think of a number of reasons why it would be helpful or beneficial. I can also think of a number of instances where it would not be beneficial if it was the only means of communications.
IRLP is also a method to extend communications by using VOIP. It doesn't specifically require an amateur radio license, but how it's structured does mean that a user does probably have a license. It is, or can be, useful or beneficial. And just like EchoLink, there are a few instances where it won't be beneficial (or possible) in communicating.
Neither EchoLink or IRLP are amateur radio, but they are -like- amateur radio to some extent. If using either is beneficial to you then by all means do so.
Have fun.
- 'Doc

 

[W5LZ]

"Without the introduction of computers into our hobby it would have died."
I find that extremely doubtful for several reasons. Computers are certainly useful, but they are not a requirement for radios. Radios were around long before computers were. Not using a computer in some form would make things more inconvenient, certainly, but don't think radios would be impossible without them.
- 'Doc

 

[Watergate]

I started this thread a month ago, and have spent alot of time on 2 and 70 since then. 10 is dead more often than not and I am still without a full HF radio. I do have kids going to the doctors and growing out of clothes, but no HF setup yet. Go figure.

When 10 is open, my dual bander ends up with the volume down or the radio off. But when 10 is dead and I get weary of people waving four fingers and a thumb day after day on 11, I spend my time on the repeaters.

I heard two guys on the Wisconsin Interstate linked repeater system trying to have a QSO. I heard them both clearly, but one guy said he couldn't hear the other. I threw my call sign out and let them know I could hear them both clearly. They were both 6 calls on a 9 system and the one guy told me they were brothers. Both techs. They got into radio together, and while one brother is in Wisconsin for work, Echolink is the only way they have of communicating with each other over the radio. Both brothers get in their cars and drive to a location where they get good signal from a repeater and use Echolink.

I think that is radio. Sorry if others disagree, but they both use radios. Were someone to build a repeater network that linked Wisconsin to California, would it be that much different?

However, I have seen the other side. I heard an echolink node on a repeater. It was broadcasting over the air a conversation between 2 people sitting at their computers. Even though a radio, the repeater, was involved, I don't call that radio at all.

I asked the original question because I found an app for Echolink and started playing around with it. I have since seen both sides to this argument.

K1IF says it's a great addition to amateur radio.

I think some parts of it are. Radio to repeater to VOIP to repeater to Radio.

Captain Kilowatt called it internet chat.

Some parts of it are. Two guys on an active repeater, neither of them using a radio.

IRLP at least doesn't have the computer to computer nonsense that Echolink does.

 

[K1IF]

CQ100 is a chat room the rest are not.

I have wireless internet here at the house so I am using rf every time I'm on my computer lol

many swl radio stations are no longer broadcasting. They use internet now. SO I could see ham radio going the way of extinction. As technology advances, ham radio must also to survive. Look what happened to CW, the military no longer uses it, and now what was once most sacred to hams is no longer a requirement. I am glad I had to pass 20wpm code test but I also understand that technology has moved on.

Embrace all technology in our hobby it will only help ensure our hobby will continue.

 

[W5LZ]

Both are VOIP and you can't do VOIP without at least two computers. Is that what you mean by "computer to computer nonsense"?
- 'Doc

 

[Watergate]

Both are VOIP and you can't do VOIP without at least two computers. Is that what you mean by "computer to computer nonsense"?
- 'Doc

No, I mean zero radio involved. Two guys doing nothing but VOIP using computer speakers and microphone and calling that a radio QSO.

I had literally just found Echolink a few days before I started this thread. I have since learned why a lot of people don't like it. However, is linking two repeaters together via VOIP really all that different from a statewide, or multi state linked repeater system?

The process is different, but the end result is the same.

I can sit in my driveway and talk to 4 states on 2 meters via the Intermountain Intertie. I go to Wisconsin once a week, they have a great linked system there. Complete with a guy who has that commercial radio broadcasting voice to let you know what you are listening to.

 

[Moleculo]

However, is linking two repeaters together via VOIP really all that different from a statewide, or multi state linked repeater system?

IMO, since it accomplishes the same thing it really isn't much different. Others may disagree. I don't have any problem with Echolink, IRLP, or any of the other internet linking protocols - they're just tools. If people don't like those tools, then then don't have to use them.

On one of the repeaters I'm involved with, we're working delivering a wireless ethernet/internet link up to the repeater on a 5000' mountain, from about 7 miles away. The internet link will provide not only web-based repeater control, but also a custom built Skype interface. Our method of delivering internet to the repeater location involves antennas and radio equipment, so that sorta blows a hole in the "internet isn't radio" argument in this case, lol.

 

[Mudfoot]

I have only played around with it a few times. Our local repeater has some moderate Echolink traffic.

You either like it or not. You either use it or not. It's that simple. Some people just wet their pants trying to demonize it.

It is what it is, a useful tool that fits a niche.

That wireless access sounds very interesting