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Estimating PEP power on SSB using "normal" meter


The maker of that video is M0GVZ and he is a member on this forum. He is correct in that you NEED a PEP meter to accurately measure power on SSB. If you are not using a proper PEP meter, and by proper I mean one that requires a source of power to operate a circuit inside the meter and not just to light a meter lamp, then you may as well throw darts at a wall full of numbers and pick one. Some average metes will show about 30% of PEP wile others will show about 80%. How do you know what yours will show? You don't know and that is why you need a proper PEP meter. I use a Daiwa CN801HP true peak reading meter.
 
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Oh...ok I will have to guess then as I cannot afford an expensive meter, thanks. I just say 200watts.
 
Wait a minute..........do you have a Kenwood TS590? If that is the case then the power out is 100 watts max on SSB, CW, and FM and should be 25 watts carrier on AM. What type of radio are you asking about specificaly?
 
RadioDaze said:
Oh...ok I will have to guess then as I cannot afford an expensive meter, thanks. I just say 200watts.
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There is a way to do it, not ideal but works. Whatever mobile phone you've got, go to the app store and download a sinewave tone generator. On my Android phone and tablet I use Signal Generator by RadonSoft as it also can do pink and white noise which is good for setting up equalisation for transmit.

Once you've installed the app, start it and set it to generate a 1kHz tone and set the volume of the audio to your normal speaking volume. Place the speaker of the phone roughly an inch away from the mike, turn on the tone, key up the radio, read the meter.

Going further and setting up mic gain you should do the above, start with low mic gain and increase it until the TX power no longer goes up, ie its at the maximum the radio is set to output. At that point its set right and will give a good clean signal. Increasing mic gain above this achieves nothing other than the ALC starting to kick in to limit the TX audio level.
 
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M0GVZ said:
There is a way to do it, not ideal but works. Whatever mobile phone you've got, go to the app store and download a sinewave tone generator. On my Android phone and tablet I use Signal Generator by RadonSoft as it also can do pink and white noise which is good for setting up equalisation for transmit.

Once you've installed the app, start it and set it to generate a 1kHz tone and set the volume of the audio to your normal speaking volume. Place the speaker of the phone roughly an inch away from the mike, turn on the tone, key up the radio, read the meter.

Going further and setting up mic gain you should do the above, start with low mic gain and increase it until the TX power no longer goes up, ie its at the maximum the radio is set to output. At that point its set right and will give a good clean signal. Increasing mic gain above this achieves nothing other than the ALC starting to kick in to limit the TX audio level.
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If the audio generator could generate two non-harmonically related tones it would work far better as you should be using a two-tone generator for power measurement on SSB. But then again anyone that won't buy the proper meter is just interested in ball park figures anyway.
 
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Captain Kilowatt said:
you NEED a PEP meter to accurately measure power on SSB.
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Yeah, but the CB crowd in this forum swears by the Radio Shack/Micronta meter...we hammies are dummies! :LOL::LOL::LOL:

24803244.jpg
 
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M0GVZ said:
There is a way to do it, not ideal but works. Whatever mobile phone you've got, go to the app store and download a sinewave tone generator. On my Android phone and tablet I use Signal Generator by RadonSoft as it also can do pink and white noise which is good for setting up equalisation for transmit.

Once you've installed the app, start it and set it to generate a 1kHz tone and set the volume of the audio to your normal speaking volume. Place the speaker of the phone roughly an inch away from the mike, turn on the tone, key up the radio, read the meter.

Going further and setting up mic gain you should do the above, start with low mic gain and increase it until the TX power no longer goes up, ie its at the maximum the radio is set to output. At that point its set right and will give a good clean signal. Increasing mic gain above this achieves nothing other than the ALC starting to kick in to limit the TX audio level.
Click to expand...


Nice tip on the phone app and nice video on checking PEP with a power meter.

My meters at home measured my TS590 at or very near 100 watts on every band from day one. It seems to me some people just went by the radio's meter which is more of an average reading.

Also, I had no issues with the ALC spike tripping my amp which is usually sensitive to such things. Although the ALC spike would occasionally show up on the Kenwood's ALC meter, It never showed up on any of my power meters. My TS590 is an older serial number before the ALC firmware update came out.

Makes you wonder...
 
My icom has peak hold for SSB power. Makes things easy! Hey don't knock those little rat shack meters as I have found them to be pretty accurate at reading lower wattage, like below 1kw. It holds up fine even with my rf power all the way up on am, which is about 25 watts carrier, it reads vswr perfectly. I do use a bird 100 watt dummy load into the radio when I do this. Watts on meter show right at 100 watts. Now from the icom groups with my voltage set at 13.8vdc I should be getting around 110 watts on SSB. So my radio shack meter isn't far off. Not saying they are anything to boast about but they do the job for the money vs a lot of other meters of its kind, like dosy and such. I wish I could afford to get an LPA-100a but for what I use my meter for, to check vswr and get s ballpark figure on power it works fine. And I don't think anyone is a dummy until they say something like the poster the other day with the mod limiter explanation. Again JMHO.
 
fourstringburn said:
we hammies are dummies!
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222DBFL said:
I don't think anyone is a dummy
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That was said with tongue-in-cheek.

I did buy one of those Radio shack meters years ago but I can't say it is very accurate all. The SWR meter gave different results along with the power meter showing at least 50 or more on higher power levels and a couple watts higher on low power compared to better quality meters I have.

That's a nice feature on your Icom having peak hold on the the meter. To bad that option isn't available on other models.
 
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I have had no issue with the rat shack meter. I don't use it very often TBO, I use MFJ analyzer to tune antenna then make sure coax is all good. My Icom 746 has been a good radio to me and for me. Not too complicated and it has had all the bugs worked out. It just came back from Icom repair shop for something minor, a blown resistor or something, needless to say when it came back it was aligned and a list of all work that was done was sent as far as the issues with them. It also has the TXCO installed and stays on freq quite well. Just my limited experience with HF radios. Also have a kenwood ts140s that I am letting my brother in law use. For what I use the Icom for its way overkill most would probably say, but I got tired of spending 300 or more dollars on exports that don't hold a candle to the Icom. I paid a bit more than what a Stryker 955ho would have cost and am happy I did!! Like I said, I don't use it for anything other than 11 meters and also listening to others bands and freqs as well only. No ticket, yet! I'll get one someday. For now I am just dabbling.
 
Nothing as grand as an amateur radio set here just export multi job.

Appreciate the replies, I just wanted to know if there was a way of getting an approximation from a meter that is not designed properly to read PEP. And it seems there is not, not easily anyway with any meaningful accuracy even at approximation level. I don't really use apps and what not on phones.

Thanks anyway.
 
RadioDaze said:
Appreciate the replies, I just wanted to know if there was a way of getting an approximation from a meter that is not designed properly to read PEP. And it seems there is not, not easily anyway with any meaningful accuracy even at approximation level. I don't really use apps and what not on phones.

Thanks anyway.
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You can always whistle into the mic if you can keep a constant volume and tone.
 
M0GVZ said:
You can always whistle into the mic if you can keep a constant volume and tone.
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I've always wondered what good that will do - unless you speak the native language of the Canary Islands, your speech doesn't include anything in a whistle's frequency range. Sure, it will probably make your meter read noticeably higher, but then when you go back to speaking in regular voice you're back where you started.
 
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