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Francis 8' Wheeler Dealer Antenna

AudioShockwav

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Apr 6, 2005
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my all-time favorite company Indian River Tank Line

I used to ship a lot, and I mean a lot, of concentrate to Florida from California back in the day.
Indian River and Cherokee Tank lines.
Used to get gallon jugs of 180 proof flavors from some of the drivers that were back hauling it from Florida.
Good stuff.

73
Jeff
 

hobbieville

Member
Nov 14, 2018
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I used to ship a lot, and I mean a lot, of concentrate to Florida from California back in the day.
Indian River and Cherokee Tank lines.
Used to get gallon jugs of 180 proof flavors from some of the drivers that were back hauling it from Florida.
Good stuff.

73
Jeff
After a heart attack and two strokes last year there were gaps, whole years of memory lost. Fortunately, I'm physically okay and my brain is "rewiring" itself to restore lost info. Sometimes, it just takes an external "spark" like this to fill in gaps. Indian River Transport was the best; management, dispatch, drivers, service department were truly unique back then and such seems nonexistent nowadays. Thanks for that spark.

I was in the Iron Skillet in West Memphis when I ran into an old friend from Florida. He advised me to hang up my spurs at Akron-Canton Express in Akron and hire on at IRT. No more bombed out slippery roads; "Drive the smooth roads West where the sun shines every day," he said. Well, I did and never made it farther West than McAllen/Renosa in the Summers; right back to running North every Winter. Go figure!

I'm old and full of stories.... don't encourage me, but I'm ending with these thoughts: hauled plenty of grain alcohol proof gallons out of Hiram Walker in Peoria. What we could commandeer from the loads was mostly for barter and gifting. I'll always cherish my time at "Injun Reeber" and memories of Boss Jack, Ms. Maggie, Betty Mothershead, dispatchers, drivers and repair techs.... even Theron Cook, Safety Man.

Sincere respect and gratitude to all who have responded. Again, 73 and gd dx.
indian_river.jpg
 
Thanks, Slow-

I began my specific-purpose search with three vehicles in mind: 2005-2008 Dodge Magnum, Chrysler PT Cruiser panel and Chevrolet HHR panel. After 8 months of looking at and inquiring about vehicles, the economically/reasonably priced vehicles were junk and anything decent was outrageously overpriced. Right away, I scratched PT Cruiser from my list. I got so disgusted my search went to the bottom of my to-do list.
Sam, "hobbieville"
NRO041
QS041
2WR041
and, N9EMZ on 10/12 Meters

my 2008 HHR was bulletproof until I got hit in it. It'll do just fine!

If you make it up to Seattle there is an active CB community on 17 and lotsa chatter all around during the day. In local evenings 40LSB is a good one.
 

hobbieville

Member
Nov 14, 2018
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I miss running tanker. That was the best job I had. Just too beat up for it now.

Sure didn’t get to run a NICE large car!

.

LOL.... You had to be leased or J.W. Peoples ("Bottle Top") to run one; the only one in the company fleet. I ("John Doe") and John Portwood ("Loco Indian") ran it when J.W. drew down time. I also ran Jerry Kinder's ("Bulldog") KW and another lease driver's (forget his handle but his wife's was "Bubbles") Super Liner under the same circumstances.

Otherwise we and the other company drivers were planted in R Models until we "graduated" to COE Freight Shakers and KWs. I made only my "school trip" in an R Model, because it was Winter and I had "snow creds." I'll never forget my "graduation" trip: bobtail between two company rigs to Barkeyville, PA to pick up a loaded tank for delivery in Somerville, MA.... tractor was down for a major.

Completing that, I bypassed the normal "driver culling-out" process by immediately doing dedicated hot milk runs from NJ to WI, backhauling cranberry juice to NJ. I was remote dispatched for over a month before getting back to the junkyard in Dundee, Florida. That sealed the deal between me and Indian River Transport. Ms. Maggie told Boss Jack to keep me in the new KW; and, they ran me off the board.

It was an altogether different world out on the big road back yonder, in my mind's-eye side mirrors. Today's drivers are doing a more than fantastic job with the tools they have to work with.... my hat's off in constant appreciation for their sacrifices and dedication. I have no comparisons to make or yarns to spin. Just that truckin' is something alien to me to the extent that I can't conceive of any way I could do it now.

Thanks again Slow.
 
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hobbieville

Member
Nov 14, 2018
9
25
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76
Palm Bay, FL
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my 2008 HHR was bulletproof until I got hit in it. It'll do just fine!

If you make it up to Seattle there is an active CB community on 17 and lotsa chatter all around during the day. In local evenings 40LSB is a good one.

Quien sabe, Ratt.

At this point I'm still in the planning stages and my tentative turnaround point is NoCal. It was Central Oregon until my nephew passed on earlier in the year. However, I have a nice little AM/SSB 10/11/12M rig, bands are opening up and I have a new A99 I may take along to ground mount along the way. I'm tickled plumb pink over my HHR.
 

ChrisBama351

Member
Dec 14, 2013
28
4
13
Colorado
Yes, Shockwave, I tend to agree with everything you have said. Antennas of similar OAL tend to perform very closely. My approach to get the “best” antenna for a mobile is always to select the one that allows for most favorable mounting location, and is as long as possible without destroying itself. The 10k and the Wilson have worked well for me in that regard, as have a few others over the years. Two newer antennas that everyone seems to rave about, the Sirio 4000 and the President Texas, both seem to share the fact they they’re well made and long

Lately I’ve been interested in ways (if there are any) to lower the angle of radiation in mobile antennas.

I’m very curious if the parallel radiators in this design help with that. And then I start to wonder about the “dibar” and “quad disk”, and if any of the claims about them are true. Free cell posted that four Amazers on a dibar showed an improvement of 2-2.5 s-units over a 1/4 wave whip. I have to take that with a HEALTHY dose of salt, but it sure makes me wonder. I’m half tempted to whip up a quad disk type device, and thread a bunch of 7’ fire sticks onto it. Would still be a long way to go to get to the 12 elements of four Wheeler Dealers or Amazers.

Anyway, the design of the Amazer/Wheeler dealer isn’t quite as I pictured. I expected the elements would be wound around the fiberglass, but it appears they’re straight, at least from the patent. Physically parallel, and not only in an electrical sense.

View attachment 31562
That's a cool pic to see. It changes what I thought too. I thought there were 3 straight copper lines but I thought it was only one copper wire going the distance 3 times. I also thought the Amazer was 98" giving the copper wire a length around 24 ish feet to make it a 5/8 wave. I apparently was wrong looking at the pic. It is 3 1/4's.
I still Love the Amazer and want a few if there are any to be had.

Anyone have pics or info on the Francis DiBar or Quad Disk. I would like to see there design.
ala"Bama" 351 Colorado
 

Marconi

Usually if I can hear em' I can talk to em'.
Oct 23, 2005
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Houston

Very good.

I checked my last model. I think that is the model where I changed the 3 wire diameters to 0.05466875" inches and the model started acting right for once. I also made the spacing between 3 wires 0.03125" inches. I also set these 3 wires starting at the center of the FG radiator. So this would make roughly 6 wires and 6 spaces for the full width = .0515625" inches. I think that is a little wider than the FG diameter at the base and for sure at the tip. I don't have my Francis antennas any more. I gave them to Dr_DX.

Can you see wires in the tip?

Here is the link to the full Patent for several ideas for the wire positions that Francis designed.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/9b/a7/29/7338be7e676742/US3541567.pdf

If if you can see one or several wires in the tip, are they positioned directly inline from the center to the outside, like shown in one of the Patent images above. or is there just one wire showing in the tip and the other 2 shorter wires are somewhere below the tip?

Or, are they positioned in a circle around the center of the FG as noted in one of the other images?

If can't see anything at the tip, can you see the wire positions in the FG by moving the fibers apart a little.

I designed my model to have wire positioned like below with all three wires are off-set to one side from the center.
f22753cb-4ba5-483c-b9f2-db6c7da4929d-png.31562

At what time did the new owners of Francis antennas sell out old inventory and start selling antennas made on different equipment?
Did they stick with the original design?
Jeff, check out the ad below. IMO this describes the new Francis antennas, and they are not the same as the Old 3 wire Francis noted in the image from the Patent above.

The Francis (Red/Orange) Wheeler Dealer is the only one I have talked about and the only one I've ever worked.
 

Attachments

  • New Francis Antennas ad.pdf
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Marconi

Usually if I can hear em' I can talk to em'.
Oct 23, 2005
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Houston
Jeff here is another referenced patent for the manufacturing of wide banded antenna for the US military. Francis and his wife use this and many other patents to aid them in understanding I would think.

There are likely many other Patents, with similar useful information, that the Francis team gave credit for...in their developing their ideas for the Francis antenna.
 
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Marconi

Usually if I can hear em' I can talk to em'.
Oct 23, 2005
7,190
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Houston
Jeff, in my post #128 above, the last sentence on page one is a partially printed sentance, and it says "Exclusive Double Helical Winding."

This is not the Francis antenna made by the Francis team back in the days.

This goes back to the story I remember when Francis told their buyer, they would likely have problems if they didn't buy the tools and ideas along with the rights to manufacture the New Francis.

I'm going to try and model the New Francis and I have to assume the dimensions using a helix wound coil with only two wires, instead of the straight 3 wire design that Francis used.

73's

Marconi
 
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AudioShockwav

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Jeff, in my post #128 above, the last sentence on page one is a partially printed sentance, and it says "Exclusive Double Helical Winding."

This is not the Francis antenna made by the Francis team back in the days.

This goes back to the story I remember when Francis told their buyer, they would likely have problems if they didn't buy the tools and ideas along with the rights to manufacture the New Francis.

I'm going to try and model the New Francis and I have to assume the dimensions using a helix wound coil with only two wires, instead of the straight 3 wire design that Francis used.

73's

Marconi
Things did change after they sold the brand off, it is a shame that they did not purchase all of the necessary equipment needed to properly reproduce the original " Triple Quarter Wave"
I look forward to seeing the results of your modeling Eddie.

73
Jeff
 

Marconi

Usually if I can hear em' I can talk to em'.
Oct 23, 2005
7,190
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Houston
Jeff, do you know if the new producer of the Francis makes a 7'er, or are they shorter 3',4',5', these days?

73's

Marconi
 

Marconi

Usually if I can hear em' I can talk to em'.
Oct 23, 2005
7,190
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Houston
I think I also saw in one of the reference Patents that Francis gave credit acknowledgment to...in his Patent, an old Francis antenna that was two 1/4 wavelength wires side by side and helix wound.

So, I think Francis tried the helix wound multi-wire idea, but they apparently found out the straight multi-wire design was better for improved bandwidth and gain at low angles.

I think we will likely never see another New Francis that was anywhere near the performance of the Original.

73's

Marconi
 

AudioShockwav

Extraterrestrial
Staff member
Apr 6, 2005
8,004
6,500
593
Nor Cal Sierra Nevada
I think I also saw in one of the reference Patents that Francis gave credit acknowledgment to...in his Patent, an old Francis antenna that was two 1/4 wavelength wires side by side and helix wound.

So, I think Francis tried the helix wound multi-wire idea, but they apparently found out the straight multi-wire design was better for improved bandwidth and gain at low angles.

I think we will likely never see another New Francis that was anywhere near the performance of the Original.

73's

Marconi
I agree.
It's sad to think the custom equipment that they developed to build them likely wound up in the scrap bin.......

73
Jeff
 

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