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General Electric 3-5812A Mods

tecnicoloco

Tweaknician in Training
Apr 23, 2005
628
377
73
South of Disorder
Hello Handy Andy:

I need your help to figure it out an asymmetrical mod for this radio and a way to lower the tx carrier without losing peak power for my low drive amp

Cybernet board PTBM050COX

Schematics of a similar radio http://www.cbtricks.com/radios/rca/14t260_70_14t303_4_5/graphics/14t260_70_14t303_4_5_pg33_34.pdf

Also I been reading and trying to comprehend the logic in your publication from Circuit Snippets on the The TX Mods for TRC-419 and Radios with Similar TX Strips and I believe the same concept can be apply to the above radio

I will really appreciate your help and guidance in this matter

Regards
Andy/Tecnicoloco


 

Well for starters, the typical "swing mod" done thru the JP36 on a Cobra 29 - can be done here too.

The Driver current limiting resistor should be kept in place - but in these designs they wanted to REDUCE swing and make this section be more pinched AM close to FM. So they hit the Driver and Final with a lot more RF - which will reduce the swing unless you "tune it out" - usually means you have to swap parts to reduce the Base to Base drive per stage. So you have the Collector - Emitter and What arrives to the part - to work with.

There are several areas you can tinker and experiment with...

But if all you want is "swing" then the R21 and cap combo...for starters...
upload_2021-7-31_15-7-32.png
Since CB tricks is pretty much "Archive - Only" status - I guess we''ll start with the above as our template.

R21 can be kept as a 10 ohm 1/2 watt and place a cap of 47uF to as much as 100uF - 16V should be ok. The BANDED (Black Stripe of Cap denoting CATHODE or "-" lead) end of the cap - that lead towards driver.
  • Between R21 values and Cap values - you tailor your radio for best swing and least amount of distortion.
  • Increasing R21's value - LOWERS Carrier.
  • Decreasing R21's value (not recommended) just heats up the mess. (In these platforms)
  • Increasing CAP farad values increases audio crossing over resistor R21 - making the radio seem to sound louder, Swing more.
Some other mods for Asymmetrical stuff - relies on fiddling with power and values at the Pre-driver.

Another overview...
https://www.worldwidedx.com/threads/beginner-questions-bear-with-me-please.200663/#post-727358
https://www.worldwidedx.com/threads...tc-any-high-level-tx.86832/page-5#post-757935
https://www.worldwidedx.com/threads/cobra-2000-gtl-volting.253055/page-2#post-711040

Those are just for starters...

Where do you want to go with this?
 
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Hi Handy Andy

I did the cap mod to R21 , installing the cap in parallel with the resistor dead key is the same but audio seems to me a little bit louder

Using the scope before the cap mod I had around 70% modulation playing with the ALC , nice waveform

After the cap mod tx peak power remain the same , waveform increased to 80 %, only difference seems to swing a little more on the power meter into a dummy load not much but respond a lot easier with voice or 1Khz tone peak

These are my result

I would like to achieve lower dead key and 100% modulation or better from an asymmetry mod if possible

Thanks again Handy Andy
Regards
 
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I would like to achieve lower dead key and 100% modulation or better from an asymmetry mod if possible

Tall order...
upload_2021-8-1_13-27-38.png
{Miss Me Yet?)
Most people want a quick fix to a complex problem - Complex? Well, yes, because you not only have differences between AM Only and SSB types - but the variants of support between them in each type - add to the problems of "here - this is what you do"

So you gave me an AM Only - so I must also let others know that due to the nature of this platform versus the others shown - to work up a simple solution is not as easy as it looks. Nor will the platform this uses, will work on others.

You actually have all the answers from the earlier links I provided - at least to build from. The rest of the application comes from your willingness to experiment - for I don't have your radio in front of me to show you what needs to be done.

So you mentioned you have low-modulation.

Make some choices...

Idealize the Driver and Final - or do we work on the power developed from the Pre-Driver?

Why Power from the Pre-driver?

Pre-driver gives you Carrier - set in stone - the Driver and Final have to work with what they have to amplify and fully modulate it.

In some manufacturing - they purposely degrade the level of modulation that can be applied to the Driver and Final - thru the use of several methods.

Clipping, Volume (ALC/AMC even AVC), adjust Audio Amp level drive (Cap choices to lessen the drive signal and place the tonal emphasis on centering and Narrowing the bandwidth present for the Driver and Final) are several methods seen in the parts and values chosen from one particular radio but in a SIMILAR platform - not one part value is the same. IT may still be the same circuit used, but the parts and the placement (how the divider networks used in it) of values are all different.
  • One thing I mention separately - depends upon the variables (values) used in the Driver and Final (Collector coupling) that gives you your "plate modulation" (Class D) approach.
  • The Pre-driver is driven hard into Class A (15K to 68 ohm) Closer to "C" but still Class A.
  • Note L6 and L10 - denote a coil but also a RESISTIVE value added, associated - with it. This affects the Inductive Reactance (XL) - SWAMPNIG is the effect here - reducing the inductance offsets the amount of modulation that is being applied - thru a secondary resistive element of a low value.
So if the Pre-driver is producing too strong in carrier - why would this affect the Driver and Final - The Modulation effect isn't the true effort, it is what they do to affect that power "vectoring" that affects the level of modulation and the influence it has on the presence of carrier from the BASE of the Driver to amplify.. Too much of one signal at the Base leaves you little that can be done to affect modulation unless you fully affect the Collector input admittance and the output of itself to couple to the subsequent stage.

These things (Circuit blocks) are Reciprocal. You can increase one, but it affects all - you decrease the same one - it affects all.

So if carrier input is stronger than the Audio Input - What choices do you have?

Once you see the function of each stage in the TX strip - it is simply a matter of optimization - then once you have achieved the 100% Modulation effect from what is there - the mods you need to install are simple and straightforward.

Where to start?

Again choices, you can Optimize the Driver and Final by looking, changing and observing - then applying the correction to the Resistor values
  • - L6 uses R20 - 220 ohm
  • - while L10 is an UNKNOWN value you will have to discover.
    • I've seen Coil and Resistor formed as a solid coil
    • - only the Resistor forms the BODY for the Coil a physical package with set dimension
    • - so you may need to make some pre-wound coil forms of similar winding counts to idealize L10 to accomplish the 100% or close to the XL amount you will need.
Adding this in...
upload_2021-8-1_21-11-42.png
  • - Looking thru other radios' how many others use a resistor across the DRIVER Collector coil?
  • - Look at other radios from that era, or vintage - you don't see too many EVEN USING Resistors across the coils of any output Driver or Final.
  • It's why I bring it up for "optimization" - your whole problem may just be the use of the two resistive elements' to reduce the overall Audio drive and vectors it adds to the power the Collectors use.
Once you've found the right amounts of resistance (if any) and got 100% Modulation done, you can then work on a power divider for the Pre-Driver.

Or just work on the Pre-Driver and it's carrier output - keeping the Driver and Final STOCK - left alone - and you just tweak the output of the Pre-Driver - it's Carrier - to a level that the Driver and Final - in their state of being - can fully modulate the signal from the carrier sent thru it from the Pre-driver.

The Pre-driver receives fully battery voltage all the time - the 15K resistor just turns it on to accept RF from the Mixer and Band Pass Filter (B.P.F.)

So you can change the voltage and current present to power the Pre-driver (at the Collector) - by adding a dropping resistor (at the Collector) - that would lower the power level but doesn't give you any flexibility to inject a boost in power you can tap from from the Audio signal that is sent to the Driver and Final.

upload_2021-8-1_13-25-18.png

That is why I did this little graphic at that link, just to show what you can do to apply a direct power from the Modulation transformer and yet keep the Negative spikes from damaging the Pre-driver - allow for more complete power to envelope tracking to fully modulate - or whatever percentage of modulation to direct carrier - mixing you need.

Phase 1 is your Diode - to keep the rest of the DC POWER feeder line from reacting to power swings.

Phase 2 is the coupling from Audio and Bias that goes to the Driver and Final - the Ds and Rs are arbitrary and are only used if you BYPASS the clipper diode.
This is all sent to the Collector thru the upload_2021-8-1_21-18-42.png point on the power line towards the Coupling coil - that heads off to the Pre-driver Collector.

Dp is the Power Polarity protection diode to prevent the negative swing spikes from damaging the section - it is also a necessary protection for if ever the battery leads are applied wrong - you can't replace the pre-driver OEM - for it isn't made anymore.

To complete this is pretty straight forward.

Design a resistor divider network to take the 13V Straight DC, and LOWER it so you can see the carrier power level drop to compare the now dropped power, to the Driver and Final can now fully modulate the carrier the Pre-driver is producing.

Then apply the Audio Bias side using R
BUFFER value to MAINTAIN the fully 100% modulated envelope.

If you chose a more aggressive approach, you can tap from the Mod transformer directly - and inject the audio and bias signal directly but you will need to use both the Spike Diode D
s and a Swamping Resistor - to reduce the Audible distortion effects the Clipping will create - Rs uses a Low value between 220 ohm onto 1K - with 1K allowing for more (audible) clipping distortion.
 
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