GMRS vs MURS

[doctor]

GMRS is not active here only 1 contact in many months, and on the otherhand MURS has a few contacts and a bit of distance of 50 miles so far.

Considering a dual vertical for both GMRS/MURS anyone suggest or have one and what is the operating status..miles, reception etc.

DOCTOR/795

151.94 795 in the cornfields

 

[Beetle]

Doctor -

I think there's a bit of confusion here. The General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) incorporates several radio services as spelled out in 47 CFR Part 95:

FRS (95.191)
R/C (95.201)
CB (95.4)
MURS (95.632)

...and a few others. Basic 40-channel CB is and has been an integral part of Part 95.

Don't confuse "GMRS" with FRS or MURS. The latter two are separate entities under GMRS. Here's a link to a list of ALL the "Parts" of 47 CFR (the FCC rules).

FCC Parts

 

[scantheband]

A dual band GMRS/MURS antenna sounds interesting, although I've never used one.

Generally, I would say that MURS would offer more range per Watt (not taking into account a GMRS repeater) over GMRS. Also, I would think there would be more of a possibility of tropo band openings on VHF MURS rather than UHF GMRS.

Remember, the height of the antenna is of prime importance, of course.

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

Well

Both GMRS/FRS and Murs can do quite well
Forgetting the added power on the repeater frequency's of GMRS
Murs can get out further while operating simplex

I use a Comet GP9 52 or 54 ft high at the base
(this is actually tuned for 2 meters and 70 cm bands.but work reat on GMRS and MURS)

I also use a 9 element (horizonal) beam for MURS (works Great)
I also use a 16 element(horizontal)beam for GMRS(works Great)

Both Murs and GMRS (simplex ) i easily work 50 miles vertical and much more on horizontal

 

[doctor]

16 element

KING COBRA

What brand name of the 16 element do you use for GMRS, looking for something like that.

On MURS I use a 7 element 2 meter beam and satisfied with it, but sure want to improve the performance on GMRS.

I understand the VHF opened yesterday as far North to Tenn, and was open in Texas also for MURS, be nice to see a forum for these bands.

Thanks/73

DOCTOR/CDX795

151.94/VOICE OF THE CORNFIELDS/INDIANA

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

I Agree..
Would make a good thread to see what skip is going on with MURS and GMRS

As to what 16 element beam i use for GMRS
here is a link to their stuff

Home Page

He no longer makes my 16 element 430-450 mhz beam but He has a larger 22 element as well as a Stacked pair of 22 element beams

Pete makes good stuff

Another company to consider is M2

 

[De_Wildfire]

Which one do I use?

I'm confused about MURS and FRS/GMRS without repeaters. They say FRS/GMRS is better for wrapping around buildings and being side. So if I am on the beach or walking down the boardwalk and I need to stay in touch with someone at the resort which service is better?

 

[Moleculo]

They say FRS/GMRS is better for wrapping around buildings and being side.

I'm not sure who is saying that but that's a little misleading. FRS/GMRS operates at the top end of 400Mhz. That frequency range is terrible for getting around buildings, hills, etc. The frequencies that MURS uses is much better. However, some areas have GMRS repeaters, which sort of helps solve that proble. They're not all that widespread, though. For your scenario, I would vote for the MURS option.

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

I am Not sure why so many started thinking GMRS or UHF was good to bounce around buildings or other objects..

Basically...
UHF frequency's ( which include GMRS ) are Strictly LINE of SIGHT.
It also works well for ham radio for doing satellite contacts..

From a stand point of whether GMRS ( without repeaters) or MURS will enable further contacts...

Well can go a couple of different ways..

You have many more channels you have to use in GMRS ( not counting FRS) and so one might think that makes GMRS better..

However because MURS is within VHF frequency's you are likely to get further distance talking on MURS...
Both with and without the various types of skip..
But there are less channels within MURS..

GMRS is far more likely to have activity though given how many and how easily available GMRS radios are..

If your looking for regular contacts with a particular person then it is likely MURS that is better suited ( because of how VHF typically travels further both with and without various skip conditions )

If you are able or willing to consider repeaters..Then the pendulum swings back to GMRS..

Regardless which you find Best for you..
The important thing to remember is...
The BEST antenna you can get..
The HIGHEST you can mount it..

By me there is not a lot going on on MURS ( there is actually police using one of the MURS channels) but regular joe people by me rarely use MURS..

GMRS though has a crazy amount of people on it ( including many repeaters too ).

Guess it all depends on what your looking for as well as which is used more by you..

 

[dudmuck]

On MURS I use a 7 element 2 meter beam and satisfied with it, but sure want to improve the performance on GMRS.

On UHF you really need to pay attention to coax loss.
Because RG8X has nearly 13dB loss for 100feet length on FRS/GMRS.
You can see on the 450MHz row: Communications Coax

Other item of concern when looking at ham antennas for GMRS in that ham antennas are only intended to run up to 450MHz. So you need to be concerned when running on 467MHz FRS frequencies.

 

[Wire Weasel]

I've heard it put a different way. It's not that UHF will go around buildings but that it will go through them better than than VHF will. If you're inside a metal/concrete building....UHF stands a better chance of reaching out than VHF will. Here, the shorter wavelength will do a better job than a longer one will. Low power signals from handheld radios above HF will be line of sight only and nothing is going to go around anything. A hill or mountain will stop all signals. It's either go over it with height or over it with HF skywave propagation.

Good luck

 

[C2]

I've heard it put a different way. It's not that UHF will go around buildings but that it will go through them better than than VHF will. If you're inside a metal/concrete building....UHF stands a better chance of reaching out than VHF will. Here, the shorter wavelength will do a better job than a longer one will. Low power signals from handheld radios above HF will be line of sight only and nothing is going to go around anything. A hill or mountain will stop all signals. It's either go over it with height or over it with HF skywave propagation.

Good luck

I think it is just the opposite...

In conductors, the penetration depth decreases with increasing frequency. More specifically, the penetration depth has to do with the rate-of-change of currents induced in the conductor by the RF field. All conductors have inductance that tends to resist a change in current, not as a 'lumped' parameter characterising the surface as a whole, but of the distributed, volumetric inductance of the material. The faster the current's rate-of-change, the more the intrinsic inductance resists the change and the shallower the RF penetration. The phenomenon even has its own name: skin effect. Google Skin Effect to learn more.

As an aside, electric current tends to flow on the outside of a conductor -- even at zero frequency (DC). It doesn't flow exclusively on the outside, of course, but it prefers this configuration because like-charged particles (in this case, electrons) repel one another and migrate to the surface, which is as far as they can go. In the static case, once the system reaches equilibrium there are no electric fields -- and hence no current flow -- in the interior of a conductor. In the non-static case the system never reaches equilibrium and so we have electric fields -- and therefore currents -- on the inside of the conductor. It's a contest between the volumetric inductance and resistivity (volumetric resistance) of the material. Google Faraday Cage to learn more.

For superconductors there are neither electric nor magnetic fields in the material's interior. Absolutely none. Superconductors are a whole new can of tasty, fascinating worms, but if you're interested, google Meisner Effect.

 

[C2]

Doctor -

I think there's a bit of confusion here. The General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) incorporates several radio services as spelled out in 47 CFR Part 95:

FRS (95.191)
R/C (95.201)
CB (95.4)
MURS (95.632)

...and a few others. Basic 40-channel CB is and has been an integral part of Part 95.

Don't confuse "GMRS" with FRS or MURS. The latter two are separate entities under GMRS. Here's a link to a list of ALL the "Parts" of 47 CFR (the FCC rules).

FCC Parts

I thought Part 95 was the "Personal Radio Service" which includes:

Subpart A - GMRS
Subpart B - FRS
Subpart C - R/C
Subpart D - CB
Subpart J - MURS

all as their own separate subparts, not under GMRS, but parallel to it.

In my mind, GMRS includes a segment of frequencies in 462 and 467 MHz, some of which are shared with FRS (and some FRS channels are squeezed between the GMRS channels).