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High 102" whip SWR Part 2

summitlt

Member
Jan 26, 2006
8
0
11
www.comanche4x4.com
I got a meter and when I key the mike it peggs the meter. Guess its not so good.

Heres my setup.

On my bedside on the passenger side about 4" from the cab is a hole where the antenna is mounted.

Here is how it is setup

Antenna
^
Spring
^
Nyon "washer"
^
Truck sheetmetal
^
botttom of mount
^
Coax

Whats wrong here? Seems right to me.

I cleaned everything up nice and clean. And sanded down to bare metal where the bottom of the mount hits sheetmetal.
 

summitlt said:
I got a meter and when I key the mike it peggs the meter. Guess its not so good.

Take an ohm meter and check from the antenna to the truck body with the coax disconnected. You should read maximum resistance. If not you have something shorted to ground.

Good luck.
 
Sounds like a short thats for sure! One question that may have been asked before but I did not pay attention :roll: How is your coax terminated at the mount?
 
what do you mean terminated? How is it connected?

Also, found that I get "noise" on all the channels. Enough to have the squelch high enough to not be able to ehar anyone. This didnt happen without the spring.
 
summitlt said:
what do you mean terminated? How is it connected?

Also, found that I get "noise" on all the channels. Enough to have the squelch high enough to not be able to ehar anyone. This didnt happen without the spring.

Be sure the center connection is not shorted to ground. Take the coax loose and test it separately.
 
1. Check for continuity from the bottom of the antenna (mount) to the whip.

2. Check for continuity between whip and body. If it pegs the VOM meter, the antenna is shorted to ground.

3. Check braid (ground) of the coax for continuity to ground.

4. How is the coax connector installed? Your "short" could be
either at the mount or at the PL 259 connector.

5. Here is another little trick. Screw the PL connector off and
stick the center part of it in the antenna connection of the
radio. IF you can hear well and the noise goes away, you
have a "short".

6. Remove coax from the antenna. Check coax with meter for
"short" circuit. If it shows "infinity" or high reading (low re-
sistance), the connector or cable is shorted.

7. Check mount for "short".


By following most, or all, these suggestions, you will probably find the trouble.


73

CWM
 
Got the problem solved. I got my SWR meter and had theconnections backward (what an idiot)


With my 102" whip with a spring mounted to my bedside my SWR is under 1.3:1 on channel 1 and a little higher on 40. I also took everything apart and reconected it making sure I did everything right and it works mint.
 
Chong',
The biggest reason for using a spring isn't the spring it's self, but that it extends the length of the whip to something around 108". An extension of some other kind would work just as well, it doesn't have to be a spring. The reason for making the whip longer is so that it can be resonant at around 27.200 Mhz, instead of around 27.500 Mhz for the 'standard' 102" whip. Just a matter of the thing being the wrong length as it usually comes 'out of the box'.

Getting a 1.0:1 SWR with any whip is almost an impossibility, they aren't 50 ohms to start with. More like around 30 ohms, give or take a few, so 'best' is usually around a 1.5:1, more or less. No two installations are ever the same, so it's possible to see a less than 1.5:1, it's just not all that likely. Got a better than 1.5:1 SWR? Don't mess with it, leave it alone. Not quite 1.5:1, just a tiny bit higher? Don't bother with it either, making it 'more better' won't do any practical good. Then again, if you like 'playing' with antennas, knock youself out! Make it 'more better'...
- 'Doc
 
Well 'Doc I have my 1/4 wave Marconi setup out back with three 1/4 wave whips as radials at the feed point and in the horizontal plane and it shows pretty good resonance (not perfect because I am using a 50' run of coax and several devices in line) at about 28.000 with 34 ohms of resistance and about 4 ohms or capacitance at 108" long showing about 1.5:1 SWR. So you are pretty close and right on the mark with your advice. IMHO, that is about as good as that one is going to get unless we change the length a little more or maybe add some inducatance at the feed point. A 102" antenna in that setup will show to be much higher in frequecy at resonance. Now I might add some more GP and maybe angle them down a bit and all that might change, but it probably won't exactally be for the better. I know what I have here is technically a better setup than summitit's mobile setup using a 1/4 wave radiator at this point, because I have better control over the effective GP for the antenna to work against. But summitit, that is not to say you have a sorry setup, that is just the way I see it, because I know what my antenna is seeing as a more suitable ground plane and you can't possibly know for sure about yours, since it is on your mobile and is surely not symmeterical as noted by your own description, being on the side of the vehicle I think plus for sure looking at your final report of results after fixing your meter, you are probably in pretty darn good shape if you radiated pattern is not thrown out of kilter too much by loacation.

Regardless of whether summitit gets his meter right or not, whatever SWR he finally gets will depend on exactally what ground plane he is able to get his 102" whip to see and since he cannot see what the antenna sees for a GP then he will no doubt have to take whatever he gets unless he is willing to do some more work. And if he does it right he will likely find that he will be better off, genertating more real RF if the visibal match is more in line with your suggestion of 1.5 SWR than any results near 1.0:1.

It is my experience with this one, that if you get the SWR looking better than it probably should, and 'Doc you are correct on that point, then you just have added losses to the match that seems to bring the mess into balance at the feed point and you have technically lost some effective output power. Maybe that does not make a hootin' bit of difference at this level in real results, but it is worth noting this system, if showing 1.0:1 SWR, was thought to have been improved, but only by the addition of some loss at the feed point and this was as a result of how ineffective of a ground plane was present for the radiator to work against.

A 102" long radiator is not likely going to be resonant in the middle of 11 meters for the same reasons. In fact it might not even be resonant in 11 meters if it is a 110" inches long, but whatever it works out to be, about 102" to 108" is good enough to work in 11 meters, even if you have a perfect match of 1.01:1 instead of what it should be, at around 1.5 SWR on your dial.
 
Thank you Mr. Jeff.

I must remain calm in all future endevors. It is not easy to fix the crux of that biscuit like Grandma does. Ops, I many have stepped over the line again. It is so difficult, I must control myself. I feel the notion of a small smirk coming upon my face, OH! My! :evil: should I leave at once?

now how did that get in there?

I'm bad!
 

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