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I have an idea how to end the CB vrs. ham war:)

Could it work?

  • Total voters
    198
C

CHARLEYMARBLES

Active Member
Jul 2, 2005
250
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Central Michigan
As the code requirement has been droped why not just licence CB opps as an entry level (no test) ham opperator?

Wouldn't that make for a better pathway to the higher levels of licence? And I bet you would see MORE people climb the ranks of hamdom as they would allready have a call and they would just have to test to advance? Then you could see greater oppertunity for the GOOD hams to elmer to the new radio enthuisist as they learned to have good opperating practices.

SO say entry level 11 meter band (no test) BUT hams who wanted to would not need to use a differant radio to use 11 meters just fallow the power requirements of the band they were on ? Not any differant than they do now with the other bands?

I don't know maby I'm useing a bit to much common sence here but we have all got to accept that 11meter is just as much a hobby service as any of the other bands, and like it or not the vast majority of hams DID start there so why not have it as a sanctioned testing grounds for folks who would like to see if radio is for them ?

And I think you would find that the wild 11 meter band would settle down a whole lot in the process.

Just a thought that came to me as I was reading :)


Chuck
 

I think in theory it looks good on paper but then you have to throw in the human element. The FCC quit licensing 11 meters because it over whelmed their ability to take care of it as needed. I think with it being in free reign for so long it would be almost impossible to get cooperation from the existing ops to comply with licensing because they know and the FCC knows they can't take care of making sure everyone talking has complied with the license required. Amateur radio has always been licensed and there has not been an enormous span of years where the gate was thrown wide open for uncontrolled use of the bands like they did for 11 meters. Plus I think that if this was proposed, because of what I just mentioned, it would make the "code" war seem like a pea in a bucket of apples with all the fallout from the Ham community not to mention CB ops that would have nothing to do with it. I think the major factor coupled with the outcry from both sides would be the FCC doesn't have the man power or funds to take control of such a move.
 
I'll catch all get-out for saying this but charlie marbles, I think you live up to your avatar. :roll: WHY should CB'ers be GIVEN a license of any sort? WHY should ANYONE be GIVEN a license? You say CB'ers, but what about the guy that goes out and buys a CB today should he expect a ham license tomorrow? The exams are a gimmee now,anyone with a hint of ambition can pass them.Personally I feel the exams are far too easy now.The elimination of the code requirement has nothing to do with how I feel. If 11m was to become a "ham entry level band" what about all the CB'ers that do not wish to become hams? You cannot have both services running amock on the same frequencies.
 
The similarity is that they are both radio, that's about it.

You would have to actually listen to hams to understand how drastically different the general conduct and operations are on the bands.

If you want to screw around with people and just generally harass people, CB is a lot of fun. If you really want to make any utility of the radio or have uninterrupted discussions of a technical nature, ham is the winner.

They both have their place and their audiences.

With the ease of entry as it is for tech, many people would argue it has turned the FM modes into a grey area that is nearly CB , albeit a more polite version.

At least around the area, if you get into a very technical discussion on the repeaters it will bring the jammers out of the woodwork. If you lower the bar too much you draw in an audience that IMO at least, is intimidated by the more technical side of things. That's my theory as to why people intentionally interfere with tech discussions more than anything else I've observed.

On CB around here, if you try to discuss anything at all of depth, people will fire up the amps and noise boxes and do all they can to wash you out. Then again that's part of the 'game' of CB.

I just don't want to see the worlds collide. It's the separation that keeps them both healthy.
 
but WOULDN'T MAKING THE 11 METER BAND A PART OF THE HAM COMMUNITY help THE fcc IN AS MUCH AS THEY WOULD THEN BE "SELF POLICED" GIVING THE fcc way MORE "EYES AND EARS" ON THE PROBLEM WHITCH IN TURN SHOULD IN THEORY AT LEAST BRING ABOUT A MUCH FASTER SOLUTION TO THE "WILD WEST" ATTITUDE ON 11 METERS?

I HATE TO SUGGEST IT BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THE HAM COMMUNITY IS NOT INTERESTED IN EVEN TRYING TO HELP FIND A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM THEY ARE COMPLANING ABOUT?

FOR THE RECORD i AM NOT A HAM BUT i DO REALIZE THE cb COMMUNITY IS NOT THE ONE WITH THE SEAMINGLY DIRECT PIPELINE TO THE EAR OF THE fcc. WE AS A COMMUNITY DON'T FOR INSTANCE HAVE A LOBBYING ORGINAZATION LIKE THE aarl BUT AT LEAST SOME OF US ARE INTERESTED IN TRYING TO HELP FIND A SOLUTION:)

CHUCK

P.S. sorry for the caps didn't realize I had my lock on till I was nearly finnished and wasnt going to retype the whole thing :)
 
Part of the issue with being able to police the bands is that in order to be licensed you have ID verified when you are tested and your address is verified as well. This helps to keep the honest, honest at least.

Of course you can just buy and operate a radio illegally but I think the price of entry helps with that a bit. You see this breakdown at the lower morse code only section of 10m where the export radios can go.

The other plus is that in order to get any effective radiation on the lower bands you have to have a pretty good grip on antenna theory to do so.

The amount of effort it takes just to get on all the bands I think wakes people up too. Why bother with all the work just to abuse it? It makes a decent filter, as does having some testing requirements.

Not being a hypocrite here btw, I started with 11m and was there for years. It's how I got started with radio....with my first set of kid's walkie talkies. I found this forum as I was thinking about getting back into radio again and just got sidetracked and decided to get my ham license after having put it off for 15yrs or so.

I just really like the difference with it and found that the local CB scene had crumbled since I was last on the air. I found a local ham group that is essentially what the 'coffee break' scene was when I was last on CB. People helping each other out with equipment and general experimentation, and meeting up for the occasional 'eyeball' to just kill time and goof off.

It's a group that likes to help each other out with people ranging from the propeller head set that enjoys the theory to people who only want a radio to 'just work' for around town comms.

I don't believe there is a 'fix' for the CB bands, so much as I think they should be left alone. They serve a purpose. Those who get bit by the radio bug on CB and seek something more can always work their way to a ham license, and those who find the CB atmosphere comfortable, can stay there and be happy with it.
 
Self policing simply means good self conduct. It does not mean that hams have ANY enforcement rights to bring to an end an unruly operator.The FCC is well aware of what goes on on 11m and no amount of "self policing" will change how they act ,or do not act, on what they see.As far as this so called "war" the general view by hams is and has always been leave the CB'ers on 11m and all is fine.When CB'ers stray out of the band and especially into 10m then there is a declaration of war.The problem is the perceived arrogance by CB'ers that operate in complete comtempt of the rules regarding out of band operations and illegal amps. It is hard for most people to respect folks that have no respect for the law or those they interfere with while breaking the law. Me personally,I say do what you want 26-28 MHz but keep ANY signals out of the ham bands.
 
QRN,

You pretty well hit it on the head. I can't see how making any changes with regards to "incorporating" 11M into Amateur Radio would accomplish anything. Simply put, those operators who are willing to obey rules are going to obey rules. Those who won't will simply bring their same habits onto the Amateur bands as well. The requirements for licensing are almost ludicrous these days and it it also reflected in today's "gimme" society. I mean no harm at all, but I am not sure the "memorize" 50 'pick and guess' questions really is the way to go. I have customers, Bless their l'il ole pea pickin' hearts, :p come to me with HF antennas they have bought and installed. Shorted down! Mounted to hinged tire carriers, feedpoint impedance matching omitted, clamped directly to the body of the vehicle! Coax reversed with the shield to the center, center lead to ground------you just can't imagine the stuff I see. And they never ONCE read the manual! :?

Once upon a time, people were willing to LEARN a little. Now, they want it, they want it now, they want it RIGHT NOW! Plug 'n Play. The H--with learning anything!~ :roll: And if it doesn't work, it's YOUR fault, not theirs.

All controls to the right. Set up the rig with ALC just barely moving, Radio comes back. "HEY! This radio sounds awful!" Mike gain full on, ALC far right!(we just GOTTA see "SWANG" :p ) Transmitter power full on, and a POWER mike for SSB! SHEEEEEEEEEEESH! Mo Powah! Mo Gain! Mo Watts---Watts, watts, watts, watts, the all-worshipped "god" of watts!!!!!!

What the existing hams fear (and we DO see this attitude on 11M, let's face it!) is this becoming the norm instead of new ops mentored into proper operating and learning something of VALUE.

CB serves a purpose--tho that purpose sometimes gets hard to fathom. Riley Hollingsworth once told me that it would be a bad idea to do away with 11M CB because it sorta keeps the bad guys where, at least, they can kinda keep an eye on 'em! :D

Those who wish to operate at a higher plane, want to contribute to the art of radio (who knows, you might invent some new product), want to render volunteer service, get more for their "buck", can study for the Amateur license. Those who don't can remain with CB. I think that is exactly the intent of the Feds and how it is likely to stay! :LOL:

73

C W Morse
 
C.W.
You guys have a more than ample amount of bad apples in the ham community. When you guys live in glass houses....you don't need to throw stones. Just patrol your own backyard.
 
Peddler said:
C.W.
You guys have a more than ample amount of bad apples in the ham community. When you guys live in glass houses....you don't need to throw stones. Just patrol your own backyard.
Click to expand...

See,that is the point peddler. The ham bands ARE our backyard.Keeping the unlicensed operators out of it is just a part of patrolling it.Sure there are bad operators everywhere,no one denies that. When a CB'er operating out of band or with an amp complains about a bad ham operator are we supposed to say "You CB'ers that live in glass houses don't need to throw stones. Just patrol your own backyard." Sound familiar?
 
My point is that the ham community needs to patrol it's own ranks as there are more of them than us lowly CBers. Some of the ham freq tend to make the superbowl look like a sunday school class. If a ham really wants to help, instead of sitting in his big old comfy chair and reporting every little infraction that he deems as detrimental to his station, maybe just maby, he could get off his butt and work with some of these guys instead of making enemys.

I'm a CBer, I stay in band, and I mind my own business most of the time.
 
Peddler said:
My point is that the ham community needs to patrol it's own ranks as there are more of them than us lowly CBers. Some of the ham freq tend to make the superbowl look like a sunday school class. If a ham really wants to help, instead of sitting in his big old comfy chair and reporting every little infraction that he deems as detrimental to his station, maybe just maby, he could get off his butt and work with some of these guys instead of making enemys.

I'm a CBer, I stay in band, and I mind my own business most of the time.
Click to expand...

I would have to mildly disagree with "there are more of 'them' (meaning hams) than us lowly CBers" There are approximately 600,000 (I haven't looked lately at the numbers) amateurs in the US--and that's JUST the USA. The tricky thing trying to make comparisons is, the Amateur community is documented with callsigns, addresses, data, while CBers aren't kept up with unless, of course, one is REALLY misbehaving. How do you compare the two numbers when one group is documented with licenses, the other is not? IMHO--and it's JUST an opinion---IF CB were documented the way is used to be, for one thing, it's own infractions would be much less than now. As it is now, if one could get a handle on it, the infractions committed by 11M ops would PALE in comparision to that of amateur. Just look at the number of sites selling illegal "10 Meter" radios, peak and tune jobs, modifications, and amplifiers targeted towards CB. But that can't be proven. It's just an opinion borne out ONLY if you simply listen to CB,then listen to the few hams on 75 Meters who embarass us!

We have ONE group defending THEIR group as being "saintly" :p , the other saying "NO, it's the OTHER fellas being 'bad'"! It depends on one's point of view, which side of the bread your butter is on. My opinion is, when I hear a ham who badly represents what amateur radio is supposed to be, I simply don't talk to him or associate with him. Is that "stuck up" or "elitist"? I don't think so. It's just part of trying to take the high road. Its part of trying to be the best in the hobby one can be.

Some of us talk about not "snitching", and glorify outlaw-ism as if it is something to be praised. How, pray tell, then do we keep the amateur hobby from deterioriting into mayhem? It is almost impossible to try to "mentor" an outlaw; he will tell you in no uncertain terms where he wants you to go in the most filthy words! :shock: It goes back to what I said before; those who are inclined to follow the rules will do so and make good operators---ones who represent what amateur radio is supposed to be. Those who, perhaps, were "bad" operators and the most flagrant outlaws from the beginning, SOME of these will be so no matter WHAT label you put on 'em. Some CB ops started out with chopped up radios, amplifiers, "extra" channels because they were guided that way by other CBers; they simply didn't KNOW any better. Many of these DID get mentored by other hams who invited the CBer into his shack and showed him gently that there IS a better way. He then became excited and chucked the old way and is now a ham you could never TELL was once an "outlaw"! :D

So how do you TELL who might be a "good" or "bad" ham (or CBer, for that matter?) The label "ham" tells us NOTHING about what sort of operator he is! It is more a matter of the
PERSON than whether we call him "ham or CBer.





73
 
NO I don't think I have EVER seen any where on here that any "outlaw" opperator has disputed the fact that some of the 11 meter crowd break rules. but that is not the question the question is are the ham community willing to break rules to try and get back at those "outlaws" and the answer is clearly YES and not ONLY break rules but break this countrys most basic and improtant rules THE CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES. I say again quoted from Ben Franklin himself " those that would give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty or security"


Chuck
 
CHARLEYMARBLES said:
NO I don't think I have EVER seen any where on here that any "outlaw" opperator has disputed the fact that some of the 11 meter crowd break rules. but that is not the question the question is are the ham community willing to break rules to try and get back at those "outlaws" and the answer is clearly YES and not ONLY break rules but break this countrys most basic and improtant rules THE CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES. I say again quoted from Ben Franklin himself " those that would give up liberty for security deserve neither liberty or security"


Chuck
Click to expand...

Could you translate that? I am not understanding HOW it is "hams" that 'break rules to try and get back at outlaws and what it has to do with the Constitution. Nothing meant by it, but I am not making a connection to the discussion and how it relates to this post.


CWM
 

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