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Just found out my end fed does..

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio Antennas' started by K3ACZ, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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    Was in bypass mode on my MFJ-941e tuner last night to check my endfed antenna without tuner in use.

    The SWR readings

    60m 2.0
    17m 2.2
    15m 2.0
    12m 1.2
    10m 1.1-1.2



    Don't know why 20 is a 3 and 40 is a 4+.. guessing length isn't correct.

    The endfed has a 9:1 un-un and is about 44' with a 12' counterpoise.. it's laid out like a sloper or ocfd considering the 12' of counterpoise. The un-un is at approximately 10' off ground on a wood post. (See below)

    Max height is 27' then makes a left back to the house roof at 14'. Tied off with poly rope so it don't touch the roof.

    It's fed with 25' of coax and has a 1:1 choke just outside the shack wall to keep RF out of the shack.

    I wish I could extend it longer but I'm out of places to tie to. The one tree and back towards roof is it..

    IMG_20180630_172921272.jpg
     
    #1 K3ACZ, Jul 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018

  2. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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    Removed the counterpoise..

    80m 2.5
    60m 1.6
    40m 5.0
    20m 1.9
    17m 1.5
    15m 1.9
    12m 1.1
    10m 1.1

    So it appears 80 and 40 still suck and 40m got worse.

    Reason I was checking was the most built in antenna tuners on rigs (like 450D) are supposedly only able to do 3-1..

    Why is 80m reading better than 40m??
     
  3. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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    Going to spend time tomorrow recutting the end of the wire that goes to the matchbox ring terminal.. never sealed the ring terminal where the wire goes in.

    I noticed the counterpoise wire which is just wrapped around the eyebolt has oxidation..

    Can't tune 80m at all even with tuner and noticed my meter has a little bounce.
     
  4. BJ radionut

    BJ radionut Supporting Member and 6m addict

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    I see a couple things that may help:
    1. Cut the Ty-Rap off at the feedpoint...mount Balun or Ty-Rap to the post a little lower. This will let it open up and let the antenna up slightly.(almost looks like it's touching the edge of the shed) If nothing else very close proximity.
    2. By removing the counterpoise wire your COAX now becomes part of your antenna.
    3. Counterpoise suggestion...Run the counterpoise wire down the wooden pole to ground level. Set a ground rod there!. To the ground rod add Radials.
    See how much length you can get by running them around the base of the shed at ground level (or any other direction possible, Buried under gravel/dirt where they do not become an issue)..Several lengths that may help: 16ft / 33 ft / 58 ft. Any length and multiples of any length should improve your signal overall. They may not change the VSWR.
    However they should add performance overall.
    4. The MFJ tuner...Bonded to Ground rod? (shortest length as possible to shack location)
    This is critical!
    Or bonded to frame of trailer.(which should be grounded already).
    Worth a try. I truly believe these will help you.
    GL
    All the Best
    Gary
     
    928bolo and Shadetree Mechanic like this.
  5. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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    The shed is the neighbors and is like 20' away. The picture is creating an optical illusion.

    I will try running a longer counterpoise tommorow.. ground rod might be rough as the park is picky where I can plant a rod.

    The MFJ tuner and Alinco tied together and grounded to the outlet on the wall. The actual rod for the trailer is on the opposite side of the trailer.

    If I move the radio to the other room as planned. It has the breaker box and the ground rod wire about 7' from the bench to the right. See pic below..

    IMG_20180714_204625136_LL.jpg
     
  6. BJ radionut

    BJ radionut Supporting Member and 6m addict

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    https://www.w8ji.com/end-fed_1_2_wave_matching_system_end feed.htm

    "Unfortunately end-fed antennas have also come back with a little misconception. One commonly repeated myth or "theory" is that half-wave antennas, being resonant, do not require a counterpoise. Lack of a proper counterpoise does not mean the antenna will be worthless and not make contacts, it simply means something else replaces the missing counterpoise area. The feed line, as well as everything connected to and surrounding the feed line, becomes part of the radiating system. This creates three potential problems":...article continues...
    "In nearly all cases, if we notice it or not, an inadequate counterpoise hurts antenna pattern and efficiency"...
    https://www.w8ji.com/counterpoise_systems.htm
    GL
    All the Best
    Gary
     
  7. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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    Todays plan with my spare 100' spool of 12 awg stranded THHN.. IMG_20180715_085621128_LL.jpg

    Might try for an L or V and get some more overall length on the antenna side..

    If I do a V I have to cross over my roof..
    Which when it tapers down to the 14' porch post will be very close to the roof line..

    IMG_20180715_090536422_LL.jpg

    If I do an L I just lengthin (replace) with this new spool and connect to a short electric pole (mine). It only has the meter, power comes up from underneath.. This should get me to the magical 65' or so.. keep in mind some real power lines are just about 20' from back of trailer and will be running parrallel in this configuration.

    IMG_20180715_090358685_LL.jpg

    Any other ideas or suggestions??
     
    #7 K3ACZ, Jul 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  8. Tallman

    Tallman W9WDX Amateur Radio Member, KW4YJ EXTRA class

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  9. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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  10. 543_Dallas

    543_Dallas Sr. Member

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    Are you using an end fed antenna because there are no other alternatives or because they seem to be so popular lately? People that have room for real antennas are buying these things and telling everyone how great they work because they make a contact. A coax fed diople will work so much better.

    Its nice to be able to use all of the HF bands but Id rather have good performance on 1 band than poor performance on all of them.

    For 10, 12 and maybe 15 you'd be better off with an IMAX 2000 or a99 and use your tuner. Ive used my 5/8 wave 11m antenna with a tuner down to 17m. It worked better than the zs6bkw (supposed to be a less crappy version of the g5rv) on those bands.

    It sounds like you have room for a 40 meter dipole. You might have to load it some but that's ok. You could still add a 20m element if you want to go the fan dipole route. Theres not a lot of activity on 60m. 80m is tough without a good antenna. Unless you're working cw or digital modes its going to be tough to have a qso. Especially with the static levels and lightning crashes in the summer.
     
  11. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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    Ok. I changed the ends to fresh ring connectors and changed the counterpoise to 16' though not running to the ground but about 4' on the vinyl siding..

    On bypass I get

    3.982 MHz about 2.8 swr
    5mhz is 2.1 swr
    7.265 about 3
    14mhz about 3
    18mhz 1.8
    21mhz 1.9
    24mhz 1.1
    28mhz 1.6

    I can tune all bands with the tuner but the 80m and 160m.. using H or less on the center inductor knob of my MFJ-941e tuner.


    IMG_20180715_112616039.jpg
     
    #11 K3ACZ, Jul 15, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  12. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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    Thinking 40/20/10 fan

    Just measured I got just about 33' going to end of trailer and 36' if I go up the tree the same way (slight up slope)
     
  13. K3ACZ

    K3ACZ W9WDX Member

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    Got 80m to tune.. using D inductor which to me is odd. Got a low K for 21mhz..

    Here are the settings for my most used frequencies.. no swr means 1:1

    IMG_20180715_135347908~2.jpg
     
    543_Dallas likes this.
  14. Tallman

    Tallman W9WDX Amateur Radio Member, KW4YJ EXTRA class

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    Maybe like I was back in 2013 wanted to get on the air as quickly as possible and was satisfied with it. I have a neighbor who reports me for everything I do with antennas and so on. They reported me to the FAA because I had a metal pole 48' in the air and did not have flashing lights on it. We are on the busiest approach to the airport but I am well below the aircraft flight path. I could expect the swat teams to show up if I put a tri-bander and rotator on a tower.
     
    Dmans and K3ACZ like this.
  15. 543_Dallas

    543_Dallas Sr. Member

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    Was your 48' pole breaking any rules where you live? If not what can they do? A friend of mine has an antenna in an HOA. They made him take it down once so he put a magnetic antenna on his car and ran the coax into the garage. After he got enough rfi complaints and explained why it was happening they let him put his antenna back up. He is a ham but they probably didn't know it was cb equipment causing the rfi.
     

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