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Multiple Radio Cablin and Base Schematics = Need Opnions

Y

YamahaDude

Member
Apr 9, 2009
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Hello All

I'm rewiring my base station and have the following plan (see image) to accomodate multiple radios and linears
What kind of DB insertion-loss should I expect due to the amount of device that are inline example: Jumpers, Meters, Switches, filters....

All suggestions are welcomed.

Thx

baseschematic.jpg
 

How long are the patch cords going to be?
Each item generally has published insertion loss. Such as the filters and the switches. I don't think the linears apply, though. I don't know if meters publish insertion loss in their specs. But then again - I don't know - maybe they do.

Maybe between 2-4 db insertion loss - total - from the mic to the antenna. But what bothers me about this huge 'chain', is the the amount of elements you have in it. I know that I run my radio straight to the antenna. The ONLY time I use the meter is to make sure the antenna is all right. But I'm sure many people don't do it the way that I do - too...
 
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On HF you really don't have to worry that much about insertion loss. VHF/UHF, yes, then you need to worry about it.

Question, What is the ICE HF Filter for?

Oh and the RG8x is fine for the jumpers in the shack. Depending on how long the run is to the antenna, you might want better coax there.
 
I would say that your plan ought'a pretty well handle things. I'd echo da'Mole' about insertion loss at HF. There will be some, but nothing to worry about.
I would suggest taking care about connecting all those radios through a switch. As in making that switch short the inactive positions to ground (or even better, a 50 ohm load), and making sure you've got the right position selected at any particular time. Lots of RF floating around in that switch and back into the inactive radios. Not exactly the best thing in the world for them. Turning the inactive radios off would also be a good idea. (As if you never thought about that, right?)
Have fun.
- 'Doc
 
"What kind of DB insertion-loss should I expect due to the amount of device that are inline example: Jumpers, Meters, Switches, filters...."

[Rob] ....between 2-4 db....

(Fact, not opinion) try less than 0.2db. per device, (insignificant, negligible) typical for most well designed measuring equipment and antenna switches. insertion loss for bird measuring devices for example can be as low as 0.1db.. antenna switches utilizing cavity-type construction are able to maintain insertion losses of less than 0.2db..
 
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Hello All

Here is some additional info on the devices...


Dosy
TFC-3001

Astatic
Astatic ParaDynamic PDC600 | Astatic/PDC

ICE Low Pass Filter
http://www.iceradioproducts.com/images/ICE42xdatasheet.pdf

Bencher YA-1 Filter
YA-1 Low Pass Filter [YA-1] - $95.00 : Bencher, Inc., Amateur Radio Products

Switches

2x
Item : MFJ-4712
Description : 2 POS REMOTE ANTENNA SWITCH
MFJ Enterprises Inc.

1x
Item : MFJ-4716
Description : 6 POSITION ANTENNA SWITCH
MFJ Enterprises Inc.

it's really important for me to get this right so all everyone's opinions are welcome....

Cheers
 
YamahaDude,
Don't get too wrapped up in that doing things 'right' thingy. There are almost always more than one way to do things 'right'. It just depends on the particular situation and what you can do, and exactly what you mean by 'right'.
Your plan so far isn't 'wrong' in any huge (or small) way, it ought'a work just fine. I'm sure that after you have it up and running you'll find maybe one or two things you'll wish you had done differently. That's about as normal as it gets, happens to everybody. The best planning you can do is to sort of eliminate any huge 'glaring' mistakes that you, or someone else happens to see. From there, just wing it. (Of course, after getting it all running smoothly, you can gloat about how thoughtful you were to come up with such a 'perfect' set up! Sound familiar, by any chance?? Don't spread that around, it's a 'trade' secret you know.)
Good luck.
- 'Doc
 
if you get off your lazy ass, download and read the manuals and pdf file (instead of throwing the links up there for someone else to do your work for you) you would know that ICE products is the ONLY manufacturer that provides any insertion loss figures, ie. .1 - .4db. @ approach to cutoff. call the rest of them as they don't provide the information that you're looking for.

opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they're all different. call the manufacturers and ask them, that is if they even know. Rob already gave you an opinion that is grossly in error, (2-4db.) expect more of the same. the expensive stuff generally has the lowest insertion loss and the manufacturers don't mind providing the information. get a clue.

i have already scanned all of the available information for every link you posted.
if you want the information for the rest of them then pick up the phone and go to work, or do you want us to do that for you too?

"What kind of DB insertion-loss should I expect due to the amount of device that are inline example: Jumpers, Meters, Switches, filters...."

generally speaking, insertion loss will be higher for cheap equipment and measurably less for quality components. if the manufacturers who build the stuff don't know then you're SOL. your question has been answered.
 
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Freecell :D:D (y)(y):D
you put a smile on my face......go to love the internet....Great part of this is that there is not to many of you out there!!!!!

Have a nice.. day.... if you dont want to help people simply dont....it's not that hard not to click reply.....

It's your choice....... Sounds like you made a bad choice when you decided to reply my post... it seems that it made you upset... (that is bad for the heart!!!!!My radios are not worth getting you that upset..)

Thx for the reply!!!
 
anytime the opportunity arises to help others LEARN to help themselves by using a little reason, logic and common sense i try not to miss it. pour over the different brands of equipment that you're looking for and if no technical specifications are provided then move on unless you want to "work the phone". in instances where certain information is not provided it's a sure sign that no one bothered to acquire the necessary test equipment to measure parameters like insertion loss and you won't find that information when dealing with the vast majority of inexpensive hobby/aftermarket products.

i don't get upset, don't have the time.
 
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Let's see...
'Freecell' says no more that .2db loss per item...That means that with 'nine links' in this chain multiplied by .2 equals 1.8db loss...Now, that numbr is pretty close to my first guess...
Of course, that would have to be under the best of circumstances...ie: good cable w/perfect 239 connections and no major variation in the equipment specs as published.

My whole gripe with this large chain that you are contemplating isn't 'Freecell'; it is the amount of possible errors made that CAN contribute to loss of efficiency and the loss of sensitivity while in recieve mode. It is one thing to have a couple of db loss output that can be overcome by the amps - and another thing to accept the loss - however small - at the recieve end.

Is it reall necessary to have such a large chain? Could it be done simpler? What would simpler look like? A radio, an amp, a meter, a filter, and a antenna? WHat's wrong with keeping it simpler and not allowing so many variables that could complicate things if one item should go south on you? Less room for error in that line of reasoning...

Freecell, I didn't attack you or what you said...Let's see if you can do likewise...
 

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