My Lightning 6 Quad antenna

[Marconi]

This is very interesting. It looks like the choke improves the gain both with and w/o the iMax, have I got that right?

Dennis, you see what I see, but I did not modeled all the possible iterations with and without the Imax over your Quad. The work didn't include all the other antennas on your tower either. The model I used to show CMC's was also set to horizontal. The CMC's are on a vertical wire, so these polarity differences probably gives us something else to consider. We know that CMC tend to effect the pattern and in this case it does not look good as you note.

I wouldn't draw any specific conclusions however...this was all done hopefully to help bring awareness of CMC's. You will have to figure this out at your location. I think Captain Kilowatt told us he saw little to no problems with CMC on his Quad in his real world experience...so I will defer to his experience.

I tried asking my buddy with an L8+ what his experience was concerning CMC's, but he has not responded to my email.

I also recommend you get your L4+ working at installed height before you jaunt off into modifying or experimenting, mixing this Quad with the other antennas on your tower.

 

[jessejamesdallas]

I have attached an attempt to model the mast stress with the 30' quad, 2m yagi, and 2m vertical.
40' quad max wind 93.39mph
My current proposed array with L4+ 75.33mph
Might need to bring it down a bit. Is ~80 mph a reasonable goal.
You can't plan for everything, we just had a tornado hit about 8 miles from me last month. What about the tower stress, I assumed if the mast/hazer would hold up the tower would be ok?

Got news for ya...if a tornado hits your tower...it ain't gonna mater about how much stress is on it at the time! lol

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Yes, you have it correct and I understand the concern regarding all the stress at the rotor/Voyager hazer. The rotor is inside the hazer so only about 2' or 3' of mast is below the top of the hazer. The top section of tower is 8' and I have 3 guys, steel cable at 30' 1/4" phillystran at 50' and also at 80'.
This is a possible weak point as you say but I don't think it could be more stress than it handled with the 40' quad. What do you think?

I have stiffened the hazer a bit with 2 steel cables tying the top and bottom plates together.
Leverage can be a bitch, do think I am over stressing the top of the tower?

Yeah OK I forgot you had a guyed tower so that helps a bit. Personally I hate guyed towers due to the guy wires and very much prefer free standing types. Sometimes that bias makes me blind to some other facts. LOL I am not real familiar with exactly how the Hazer is secured on the tower legs but I do know how they function. My concern is how far apart the top support bearing is from the rotator as that is where the leverage will happen. The further apart those points are the better. Crap........that reminds me. I need to order a new rotator mounting plate for my Trylon tower so I can move the rotator down to the bottom of the top section about eight feet down inside the tower. I'll have about 15 feet of mast above the tower top with about 23 sq.ft. of wind loading on it.

 

[dennis4040]

Got news for ya...if a tornado hits your tower...it ain't gonna mater about how much stress is on it at the time! lol

That was my point.

 

[dennis4040]

Dennis, you see what I see, but I did not modeled all the possible iterations with and without the Imax over your Quad. The work didn't include all the other antennas on your tower either. The model I used to show CMC's was also set to horizontal. The CMC's are on a vertical wire, so these polarity differences probably gives us something else to consider. We know that CMC tend to effect the pattern and in this case it does not look good as you note.

I wouldn't draw any specific conclusions however...this was all done hopefully to help bring awareness of CMC's. You will have to figure this out at your location. I think Captain Kilowatt told us he saw little to no problems with CMC on his Quad in his real world experience...so I will defer to his experience.

I tried asking my buddy with an L8+ what his experience was concerning CMC's, but he has not responded to my email.

I also recommend you get your L4+ working at installed height before you jaunt off into modifying or experimenting, mixing this Quad with the other antennas on your tower.

Removing the other 2 beams is not an option but I will leave my wire antennas down while I tune it.
Is there any reason I would want to use a choke besides cost and weight?

 

[dennis4040]

Yeah OK I forgot you had a guyed tower so that helps a bit. Personally I hate guyed towers due to the guy wires and very much prefer free standing types. Sometimes that bias makes me blind to some other facts. LOL I am not real familiar with exactly how the Hazer is secured on the tower legs but I do know how they function. My concern is how far apart the top support bearing is from the rotator as that is where the leverage will happen. The further apart those points are the better. Crap........that reminds me. I need to order a new rotator mounting plate for my Trylon tower so I can move the rotator down to the bottom of the top section about eight feet down inside the tower. I'll have about 15 feet of mast above the tower top with about 23 sq.ft. of wind loading on it.

I'm thinking of dropping it down some to reduce all stresses but I'm wondering how far I should I keep the bottom of the quad from the 2m yagi below it any ideas?

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

If the 2m yagi is horizontal then even 3 feet from the boom will work OK. I had an A3 about 5 feet below a six element 6m yagi which in turn was about 3 feet below a horizontal 2m yagi and it all worked well. There was probably some interaction but nothing to be concerned about.

 

[dennis4040]

If the 2m yagi is horizontal then even 3 feet from the boom will work OK. I had an A3 about 5 feet below a six element 6m yagi which in turn was about 3 feet below a horizontal 2m yagi and it all worked well. There was probably some interaction but nothing to be concerned about.

Thanks that eases my mind.

 

[dennis4040]

Dennis, you see what I see, but I did not modeled all the possible iterations with and without the Imax over your Quad. The work didn't include all the other antennas on your tower either. The model I used to show CMC's was also set to horizontal. The CMC's are on a vertical wire, so these polarity differences probably gives us something else to consider. We know that CMC tend to effect the pattern and in this case it does not look good as you note.

I wouldn't draw any specific conclusions however...this was all done hopefully to help bring awareness of CMC's. You will have to figure this out at your location. I think Captain Kilowatt told us he saw little to no problems with CMC on his Quad in his real world experience...so I will defer to his experience.

I tried asking my buddy with an L8+ what his experience was concerning CMC's, but he has not responded to my email.

I also recommend you get your L4+ working at installed height before you jaunt off into modifying or experimenting, mixing this Quad with the other antennas on your tower.

Marconi and group,
I received the L4+ today and have just unpacked it. First impression is that it was nicely packed and well organized with a clearly printed manual. It looks very professional.
One of the first things i want to do is measure the wires. Some have recommended stretching the wires also. Is the idea to stretch them and then cut to original measured length or just stretch them so they will stay tight when mounted on the spreaders? How much pressure should be used to stretch them?

 

[Marconi]

Marconi and group,
I received the L4+ today and have just unpacked it. First impression is that it was nicely packed and well organized with a clearly printed manual. It looks very professional.
One of the first things i want to do is measure the wires. Some have recommended stretching the wires also. Is the idea to stretch them and then cut to original measured length or just stretch them so they will stay tight when mounted on the spreaders? How much pressure should be used to stretch them?

Dennis, measuring and recording the wire lengths in your manual before stretching is a very good idea. And, then do the same afterward as well.

I don't mean to repeat myself, but does the manual look like either manual I sent you earlier?

I sure would like to know if there are any differences, and if there are maybe you could post the manual in a PDF file.

Regarding stretching the wires. I sent you and email I received from Harvey where he talks about his wire lengths for his SE L8.

In case you didn't read this email he plainly tells me the wire lengths he reported were as they came in the kit, and the lengths agreed exactly with what Elliott reported, several years earlier, as the lengths he measured. Elliott never said anything about stretching his wires however. I will try and contact him and ask him.

Harvey also tells me in the email that he stretched each wires 1" to 1.5" inches each for his L8 to get his wires straight. He said he also made sure each wire went where it was supposed to go. He did not talk about the wires being color coded, but the manual explains that for a very good reason, the wire lengths are not the same length in some cases. He also talked about the short section of wire in the driven element and I assume that was all about getting it situated right...an important issue to understand.

Like I noted earlier, you will do yourself a big favor if you read the manual to were every detail is well implanted in your minds eye. If you do this, then you can tell me if the information I've supplied to you and tried to explain...are in fact what your see in the kit you received. If you find differences...then please let me know, OK?.

Did I talk to you about the possible inherent problems with the kit design? Both Harvey and Elliott talked to me about the problems they had and hopefully I've mentioned them to you already.

I can't elaborate more than what I recall, so you need to find others that have this beam and ask them any more questions you might have and then let me know if you see differences please.

IMO, the purpose for pre-stretching would be to help prevent stretching due to wind or ice...after being tuned and installed.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[jessejamesdallas]

Marconi and group,
I received the L4+ today and have just unpacked it. First impression is that it was nicely packed and well organized with a clearly printed manual. It looks very professional.
One of the first things i want to do is measure the wires. Some have recommended stretching the wires also. Is the idea to stretch them and then cut to original measured length or just stretch them so they will stay tight when mounted on the spreaders? How much pressure should be used to stretch them?

Just stretch them out and get all the kinks out. "DON'T CUT THEM!"

They are pre-measured and color coated so you know which one go's where...Have fun with the set screws!

 

[murdog]

Marconi and group,
I received the L4+ today and have just unpacked it. First impression is that it was nicely packed and well organized with a clearly printed manual. It looks very professional.
One of the first things i want to do is measure the wires. Some have recommended stretching the wires also. Is the idea to stretch them and then cut to original measured length or just stretch them so they will stay tight when mounted on the spreaders? How much pressure should be used to stretch them?

Dennis ,
Can we get you to post pictures of the build and post the Manual on line as well I have what is left of a 6 element and will be putting it up in the summer .
Thanx Murray

 

[jessejamesdallas]

I should still have my instruction manual from my 4 element around here somewhere...I'll see if I can find it, and post.

 

[dennis4040]

Dennis, measuring and recording the wire lengths in your manual before stretching is a very good idea. And, then do the same afterward as well.

I don't mean to repeat myself, but does the manual look like either manual I sent you earlier?

I sure would like to know if there are any differences, and if there are maybe you could post the manual in a PDF file.

Regarding stretching the wires. I sent you and email I received from Harvey where he talks about his wire lengths for his SE L8.

In case you didn't read this email he plainly tells me the wire lengths he reported were as they came in the kit, and the lengths agreed exactly with what Elliott reported, several years earlier, as the lengths he measured. Elliott never said anything about stretching his wires however. I will try and contact him and ask him.

Harvey also tells me in the email that he stretched each wires 1" to 1.5" inches each for his L8 to get his wires straight. He said he also made sure each wire went where it was supposed to go. He did not talk about the wires being color coded, but the manual explains that for a very good reason, the wire lengths are not the same length in some cases. He also talked about the short section of wire in the driven element and I assume that was all about getting it situated right...an important issue to understand.

Like I noted earlier, you will do yourself a big favor if you read the manual to were every detail is well implanted in your minds eye. If you do this, then you can tell me if the information I've supplied to you and tried to explain...are in fact what your see in the kit you received. If you find differences...then please let me know, OK?.

Did I talk to you about the possible inherent problems with the kit design? Both Harvey and Elliott talked to me about the problems they had and hopefully I've mentioned them to you already.

I can't elaborate more than what I recall, so you need to find others that have this beam and ask them any more questions you might have and then let me know if you see differences please.

IMO, the purpose for pre-stretching would be to help prevent stretching due to wind or ice...after being tuned and installed.

Good luck and keep us posted.

I hope to have more time later today to reread everything and post the manual. I'll be sure to take some photos to share as well. Thanks for all the help!

 

[dennis4040]

Just stretch them out and get all the kinks out. "DON'T CUT THEM!"

They are pre-measured and color coated so you know which one go's where...Have fun with the set screws!

Ok, got it. Thanks
Didn't notice any set screws, probably lost them already;-)