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Mobile My new car has defeated me.

Discussion in 'CB Antennas' started by M0GVZ, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. M0GVZ

    M0GVZ Sr. Member

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    So I changed my car a little while back from a 2010 Ford Mondeo (sold as Fusion in the US) which had a Kenwood TS480, a Kenwood TM-D710, a screwdriver antenna and dual band antenna installed to a 2019 MK4 Ford Focus. Work is quiet so I decided I'd swap all my radio gear in.

    Looking at how hard it was going to be to route the power cables from the battery due to lack of room between the bulkhead grommet and engine I thought I'd better take a look at cable routing before I drilled a hole in the roof.



    Basically I'm stuffed. Ford Europe has decided to employ Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Rolls Royce levels of build quality and interior trim fit from when they were at the top of their game when putting the car together, I guess it's because they build them in Germany.

    The problem I have is I have no way of routing the coax to the front of the vehicle, it isn't because I don't know the route it needs to go but I cannot remove the trim at all. I can't even remove the rubber weatherseals around the door openings. They seem to have put the rubber seals on first then the plastic trims but the rubber seal has a flap that goes over the edge of the plastic trims and the plastic trims sit over the stiff bit of the seals so you can't take the rubber weatherseals out without removing the plastic trim. The fit on the plastic trims between each individual section is so good that whilst you can see the line you can't get even a fingernail or human hair between them so no way to get leverage. There isn't even a gap on the inner sill between the plastic trim and the carpet you can get a prising object in. Everything is clipped in so tight it's not coming out without breaking it.

    I've been beaten, I'm willing to drill a hole in the roof but I can't even route the coax down the B post.

    It gets worse. Due to the way the tailgate is made and shaped you can't even put a lip mount on it, not that it would matter because I still have the same problem that I can't route the coax inside the vehicle.

    Even trying to route a power cable from the centre console for my CB into behind the dash is defeated by the fact that even underneath the dash the same problem of lack of any gaps between the sections prevents me from getting a wire in anywhere.

    So for now I'm stuck with magmount on the roof and using the cig-lighter socket for power. And I'm getting all the downsides I'd expect from that including if I go to Ch1 and open the squelch I can hear a low level white noise version of the music the car DAB radio is playing including just being able to make out lyrics but definitely the beat.

    So on one hand, well done Ford you've put together probably the best well built car I've ever seen you do but it buggers things up for putting CBs or ham radios in.
     

  2. Riverman

    Riverman Premium VIP Member

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    M0GVZ,
    We have mics connecting to radios via bluetooth. Once we have radios connecting to antennas in that manner, your problem (and everyone else’s is over). ;)

    In the meantime, perhaps someone will have a solution for you. No one is more deserving given all the help you’ve provided others here. (y)
     
    Slowmover and Marconi like this.
  3. Shadetree Mechanic

    Shadetree Mechanic 808 On The North Side of Dover

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    There has to be a way to do it. I thought there should be a YouTube video and I think I found something. The way this guy routed the power wire from the battery, I don't like. But he shows the trim so hopefully it will give you some clues.

    EDIT: oops wrong car

     
    #3 Shadetree Mechanic, Jan 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  4. Slowmover

    Slowmover Sr. Member

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    Agreed with that sentiment on contributions.

    Body shops (vehicle accident) must be able to make repairs. That’s where I’d go next. With US cars of old, the Chassis Manual was a separate volume. Body work even in 1970 had quirks that only a schematic made clear.

    The downside (even after some free advice) my be the cost of tools and attaching bits.

    Handy Andy today wrote a post re this very problem (description) on Undertaker’s antenna thread (Wilson to Tune).

    My concern (and likely yours) is in upsetting wire harnesses, sensors and the dreaded airbags.

    K0BG has noted quite a few Amateurs elect to run cabling UNDER the chassis. Hold that as last resort.

    I would in the meantime be trying to get ahold of the Body Manual. Pages applicable, if nothing else.

    (trumpet fanfare) “What Ford has joined, let Man pull asunder”

    .
     
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  5. Shadetree Mechanic

    Shadetree Mechanic 808 On The North Side of Dover

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    Here is a 2013 - 2017 Focus, might be similar?

     
  6. M0GVZ

    M0GVZ Sr. Member

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    They're not. It is an entirely completely new vehicle with a completely new design bodyshell and completely different interior.

    I noted from the still from that other video you linked to that was a MK3 Mondeo, they were a dream to install in.

    Slowmover...the problem I've got is that the vehicle is a very new shape completely different to the Focii which have gone before and not that many have been sold so bodyshops haven't really come across them yet - I'm lucky to see more than a few a week and I drive sometimes 2000 miles a week as a truck driver. My local Ford dealer even had to get the new software from Ford for programming it when mine went in for its first service which needed a software update too and by that point the model had been on sale for 9 months.

    I've got a friend who also does radio installs and I'm going to let him have a look at the weekend, a second set of eyeballs can often see what you've overlooked. If I can find a solution I think it's make a Youtube video time to help those after me who want to do it.

    P.S I found another reason to hate mag mounts last night. Left it on and it was cold and damp last night. Got in the car this morning to find the inside of the windscreen covered in condensation due to the damp air that'd got in the car from the gap in the door weather seals because of the coax coming in through the door.
     
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  7. Handy Andy

    Handy Andy Do Your Research First, Then Decide...

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    Well, give us a photo of the car in general.
    I'm currently working with - read frustrated, a Ford Fiesta (which should have been more aptly named Siesta)

    • Although never look a Gift Horse in the Mouth, I'd take back my Scion xA anyday...

    The issues are many, because as I've worked thru interior rearrangements to accommodate the needs of my workday to be spent driving a 5-speed stick in typical Michigan roads and their inherent condition - I have found the need to re-think a lot of how these cars today are put together.

    I talked about it earlier but to keep it simpler, the rust-thru warranty as well as crash protection reputation it must uphold - you arrive to conclusions that; to make this work, you have to think like the people that put it together.

    It's not impossible - just tedious for one and of the many tools of the trade, well - most of them are Torx now so if you have a set of those already, just be prepared to disconnect the Battery cable and begin to remove the seats - it's the only way you're going to get any true access to the center console and dashboard.

    It's how I found out about the seat belt bolts and grounding points - they're not what you think they are.
     
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  8. Slowmover

    Slowmover Sr. Member

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    I like my USA 2000+ miles/week versus your route, OP. Iron Man. I’d had to have been born there to imagine life behind the wheel as you do it. Here, present warm body, walk & chew gum simultaneously appears to be the latest qualification.

    I set cruise just below 65-mph (normal Governor speed many fleets), and spend my day avoiding pack entanglement. Only a bureaucrat takes away an effective tool (throttle) and has the gall to name it Eco& Safe. (Designed to eliminate owner-operators; outcome for the stupid or the smart must be the same). Insurance companies are the enforcers (pay the legislative lobbyists — attorneys — to bribe and write regulations). “Safety Score” [CSA] drives rates. Trucks AND shippers. The really big boys get low-cost financing.

    Body shop manual is online proprietary. Is the vehicle used by government fleets? Who is using mobile two-way? Have any friends in truck insurance business? Etc.

    Don’t forget going straight to Ford, as well.

    Maybe a wrecking yard. Would be great to “find my way in” on a totaled vehicle.

    I know a solution will come, but the next car purchase will have an additional line-check item, won’t it?. Warning to the rest of us.

    .
     
  9. Handy Andy

    Handy Andy Do Your Research First, Then Decide...

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    Although a sobering and painful thought process in my life, it was and is - going to a junk yard, a great way to introduce yourself of a vehicle you may want to buy.

    The sobering part is your vehicle you have now, may wind up like their pile of stuff is - soon enough.

    Picture0083.gif

    If any of you ever seen this thing rolling down the road, yeah...it was me...(sigh)

    For as ugly as it was - man I sure had a lot of fun in the backwoods life I had with that thing...

    Everywhere I went - I fit right in...(LOL)

    Anyhoo...

    Head to a dealership, work with their parts department - LEARN about your vehicle - it can save your life and a lot of $$$ in the process of knowing how to get what you need, let alone what needs to be done. It can save hours of shop time when you're no longer under warranty.

    Ok,. you may not have a lot of time to search for stuff. Just search for your car in the Browser, you'll find more and more stuff about it - even Youtube may have a thing or two about Strut replacement or headlamps - watch these - it may not pertain to your problem, but they uncover a lot about the assembly of the vehicle as they try to show you what they did to fix their problems. Any little bit of tinkering they do and "spotlight" shows - makes you that-more 'able and confident enough, to be competent enough, to do it yourself.
     
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  10. M0GVZ

    M0GVZ Sr. Member

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    Front

    [​IMG]

    Rear.

    [​IMG]

    Interior. Note lack of room, you can just fit an Albrecht AE6110 which is the size of a pack of cigarettes under the heater controls. Aftermarket car stereos are a thing of the past.

    [​IMG]

    Everything is curved on the tailgate, mostly plastic with not enough panel gap to get a lip mount in - I've a Diamond K400 which is as versatile a lip mount as you can possibly get and it won't fit anywhere.
     
    #10 M0GVZ, Jan 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  11. Handy Andy

    Handy Andy Do Your Research First, Then Decide...

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    Oh ok...LOL...

    I meant where you needed the coax to enter...ahemn...

    But nice car!

    From this view, it looks like that has a sunroof. So that I hope, is not where you want to place the mag-mount...lip mount or ULP - DRILL...:eek:

    If it's the rear-tailgate / hatch...you'll need a Torx wrench to obtain access to the column and pillar trim.

    Remember its a new vehicle so a lot of the "pop trim" pieces may break because they haven't been "broken in" by fatigue.

    There are several Youtube vids about Ford Fiesta ST's and various repairs - which are pretty close to what I'm working with here...Just swap-in Focus for Fiesta to help you locate the right ones.

    To make a long story short, they DO recommend that you place the CB antenna BEHIND the rear AM / FM aerial.

    Attached is a big photo so I won't waste others time due to bandwidth.

    Excuse the dirt and Welcome to the Rust-Belt - part of the Midwest...
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. M0GVZ

    M0GVZ Sr. Member

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    I'm drilling a hole in the roof. Coax will already be in the car. Getting it from the outside into the vehicle was never a problem even if I chose to use a lip mount.. The issue is trying to get the B post (seatbelt post) and plastic trims that run along the inside of the door opening off to route the coax behind them to the front of the vehicle.
     
  13. Handy Andy

    Handy Andy Do Your Research First, Then Decide...

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    Remember (this is more of a CAUTION for those whom are following along and wish to do this themselves someday) there is an Airbag ASSEMBLY above and along that pillar and roof junction of that area - it's a crash brace too. So if you proceed just remember to disconnect the battery and short out the positive terminal to FRAME ground too - to discharge any leftover latent charge that still may excite the sqibs and force the detonation of the SRS in that area.

    Not sure why you'd take that route when the rear pillar to the hatch as well as bottom step caps are easier to remove and gain access to carpet and subfloor to route from Antenna coax to radio - you have plenty of room and not much added length.

    But, if you're running the shortest route, well then I understand.

    But you'd be better off to avoid it, that pillar, if you can. That SRS area is hard to re-fit back in once you yank it out. Think of it like cornstarch - once deformed, you have to steam it and repress the fabric to make it fit as OEM. A simple crease and she's done.

    So if you're in a 2-door, then ok - I'd still work from the back there is plenty of honeycomb along the rear hatch frame and rear pillar - you can feed thru this - weave actually - to get the coax down to the trunk area then thru under the main bench seat to even make it to the center console letting the coax get snaked thru. At least the rear bench seat is the easier of any seats to remove to gain access and more room to work.

    With that being said, the pillar is plate and groove and the seat belt bracket and it's sleeve follow in it. You'd have to remove the clip trim to access the bolt that holds the belt to that sleeve and gimbal. The Pillar trim will come off easily enough but "stays with the belt" until you find a method to pry back that sleeve trim and access the bolt.

    Otherwise just remove the two entry side floor caps and pry back the weather-stripping - to remove the lower pillar it is wise to remove or unbolt that lower seat belt bracket holder, just pry up the trim and I believe it's a 15MM wrench. You may find it is a Torx bolt similar to the seats (40). Then for that matter, remove the seat first to gain more access. Yes, you may have to do this so you don't bend or deform trim work. It also gives you an angle in which to approach and see if you can "fish" the coax without having to deform that SRS mess that's there. I've gone front to upper console (without sunroof issues for a nice flush top load radio) and rear - down side pillar. With Rear towards AM/FM antenna being the easier to get away with. That means the best approach may be to work prying down the headliner from the rear to fish thru the coax. You still should remove that interior light assembly so you can "finger access" along it's loom to obtain access and fish feed point to snake thru.

    Again, the above is for other vehicles in model years before yours, so watch where you pry and drill - no fun patching up a wiring loom because a screwdriver or prybar nicked wires...

    I've already developed a "plan of attack" and I'm trying to pass the confidence I have in doing it, along to you - but you know what you're up against better than I, because you have it right in front of you.

    Good luck it's a chore...nothing impossible though.
     
  14. M0GVZ

    M0GVZ Sr. Member

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    The removal of the interior light is the way I usually go. This one was an absolute sod to do. They've stopped using bulbs and changed to LED so they've not put in a slot to pry it out for bulb changing because as far as they're concerned it'll work for the lifetime of the vehicle so it's flush with the outer trim all the way round. I eventually got it out and managed to take it apart so I could put it back in the headliner again but it is definitely not designed to come out. It has two thick plastic lugs on the front of the outer bezel and two plastic lugs on the back of the main unit so you put the bezel in first then the light unit in and it all locks it into the headliner. Previous model bezels had a kind of hinge clip mechanism on the front and back so you could unclip it and remove it but not this one.

    Definitely agree with you with the routing down the back pillar but unfortunately yet again, I'm coming across the same issues. So in your pictures for the bit the parcel shelf sits on it shows torx bolts, the same as it was in my Mondeo. They no longer exist, neither do any screws or torx bolts anywhere else on any of the trim in the rear of the vehicle behind the seats. There are no bolts or screws at all holding it in place. Basically it appears that as a cost saving method everywhere that they used to hold in with bolts and screws they've changed to some kind of clip and whatever they're using it's not giving up its grip.

    That's the kind of crap I'm fighting with this car. It seems everything has been engineered to be fitted once. The only things that come off are an access panel on each side of the boot so you can change the direction indicator bulbs and the carpet and even with those off there's nothing to see to give a clue. I'm literally now where I think I'm at the point I'm going to have to wait until one turns up at a breakers yard so I can break things to figure out how they're fitted to the vehicle. If I ever do get this install done and vlogged I reckon it'll have a hell of a lot of views because every installer is going to come across the same issues.

    Working today, but over the next couple of days I'll take a few photos and pop them on here.
     

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