So last week we had very strong winds on the east coast. Just bought are home back in july and I finally put up my 7 year old Solarcon I-MAX 2000. Had It mounted on a ten foot pipe stuck down inside the vent pipe on roof. Because I don't have the funds right now to buy a hinge plate for my tower. Well the wind sniped the antenna in half right at the base of the second Section of antenna. The same day i received my new hy-gain sp-500 super penetrator. Talk about being lucky lol. So after doing some research on here about the sp-500. One off the first things I did was replace the 3 inch 16 ga wire with 12 ga solid wire using a Snap on 125 watt gas soldering iron. I also used 3m electric tape on all the hose clamps and joints. My questions are One. Does the top hat radials need to line up with the bottom radials or do they go in between them? I have the top hat radials spaced at 90* And I left off the three bottom radial caps to drain the water out. Question two. I bought a can of Dow Great stuff Insulating foam sealant from lows. Should I use It inside all the tubing to keep out water or not? Thank you for your comments.
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New hy-gain sp-500 super penetrator questions,
- Thread starter cbkidd1
- Start date
to keep water out? bad idea, it will actually keep any moisture from condensation IN.
Use NOALOX on all metal connections and leave the bottom open to allow drainage.
that being said,...... I have seen beam horizontal tubing sections being filled with it to reduce "singing" from wind caused vibrations.
I can't speak for the results tho.
#1, I agree with Road Squawker in his remarks.
The SP500 antenna can't be made impervious to Mother Nature. IMP, some of the ideas you mention here can develop to be problematic over time, and none will stop moisture getting inside the radiator unless maybe you live in a desert.
Leaving your radial ends open is a good idea unless they are nosy due to wind and it is bothersome. Rapping the joints of the radiator with tape is a dubious protection at best, and may develop problems on disassembly if you find that necessary.
My experiences with two HyGain CLR2 antennas myself and uninstalling several more over the yars...tells me the best thing is make sure the radiator can drain well at the base. The SP500 radiator does fit tightly to the top of the bottom insulator, where we find the connections to the Feed Point inside. Brand New, these insulators should look to be water tight and impervious to water getting in, but over time with the radiator bolted to this insulator and the wind an weather twisting and whipping around, puts unknown stresses on the insulator and this could mean cracks, and cracks means water could get inside to the metal circuit or part to the feed point and coax.
If you check, you will notice that the top portion of the base insulator, inside of the radiator is not a perfect circle. There are 4 cutout slots molded to let water drain-out or that is the idea anyway. This irregular shaped design allows for some water to drain out around this imperfect circle design, but I'm not sure how effective it works. I've dismantled several of these insulators and most were high and dry...looking good after years of service, but others were rusted beyond repair. Those needing repairs were cracked in several places. Maybe consider to additionally drill a small 1/8" hole...an inch or so above the bottom...or one could file 2-4 small slots in the very bottom of the radiator...that too should open up this area a bit more for drainage.
Regarding putting your antenna on your house, is not recommended by me!!!!!
Back in the day I used a 30' x 12' foot roof deck on my house 18' feet high to mount several antennas. This deck had a 6" inch heavy wall vent pipe standing 14" inches high above the deck. I built a very light weight tilt over device to handle my antennas. Over time this pipe leaked water that I had to repeatedly repair, but when I had my roof replaced, I found rotten wood about 5' feet all around the pipe area. When we got inside the attic we could see damage to the stud that braced this pipe, and that too had to be replace. In the process we found the elevation of the roof line had sunk down making the roof line out of square. This had to be fixed and it cost plenty, and those repairs caused stress below, and both ceiling and wall sheetrock failed inside the house. This had to be repaired and that required three rooms to need sheet rock repairs and re-painting. Not cheap either.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
The SP500 antenna can't be made impervious to Mother Nature. IMP, some of the ideas you mention here can develop to be problematic over time, and none will stop moisture getting inside the radiator unless maybe you live in a desert.
Leaving your radial ends open is a good idea unless they are nosy due to wind and it is bothersome. Rapping the joints of the radiator with tape is a dubious protection at best, and may develop problems on disassembly if you find that necessary.
My experiences with two HyGain CLR2 antennas myself and uninstalling several more over the yars...tells me the best thing is make sure the radiator can drain well at the base. The SP500 radiator does fit tightly to the top of the bottom insulator, where we find the connections to the Feed Point inside. Brand New, these insulators should look to be water tight and impervious to water getting in, but over time with the radiator bolted to this insulator and the wind an weather twisting and whipping around, puts unknown stresses on the insulator and this could mean cracks, and cracks means water could get inside to the metal circuit or part to the feed point and coax.
If you check, you will notice that the top portion of the base insulator, inside of the radiator is not a perfect circle. There are 4 cutout slots molded to let water drain-out or that is the idea anyway. This irregular shaped design allows for some water to drain out around this imperfect circle design, but I'm not sure how effective it works. I've dismantled several of these insulators and most were high and dry...looking good after years of service, but others were rusted beyond repair. Those needing repairs were cracked in several places. Maybe consider to additionally drill a small 1/8" hole...an inch or so above the bottom...or one could file 2-4 small slots in the very bottom of the radiator...that too should open up this area a bit more for drainage.
Regarding putting your antenna on your house, is not recommended by me!!!!!
Back in the day I used a 30' x 12' foot roof deck on my house 18' feet high to mount several antennas. This deck had a 6" inch heavy wall vent pipe standing 14" inches high above the deck. I built a very light weight tilt over device to handle my antennas. Over time this pipe leaked water that I had to repeatedly repair, but when I had my roof replaced, I found rotten wood about 5' feet all around the pipe area. When we got inside the attic we could see damage to the stud that braced this pipe, and that too had to be replace. In the process we found the elevation of the roof line had sunk down making the roof line out of square. This had to be fixed and it cost plenty, and those repairs caused stress below, and both ceiling and wall sheetrock failed inside the house. This had to be repaired and that required three rooms to need sheet rock repairs and re-painting. Not cheap either.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
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I bought 4 x 10" pieces of 1/2" white PVC to use on a quad beam and I heard all of the raving about increasing the lateral resistance and radial droop.
That is not what I found. I could hold this PVC, just like I bought it, at arms length, and the droop was about 2' feet at the far end.
I filled it with Expandable Foam, and the droop was 3'+ and that was probably due to the lack of any lateral resistance by the material, and the added weight.
To make the PVC stiffer with less droop is not the purpose for this product.
If you put this foam inside a section of tubing and the tubing moves about in the wind and weather...the foam will be a useless as tits on a boar hog for any reason.
Spray exform on your rear tires and make them like slicks, and increas your traction.
Apply it to the bottom of you boat and your boat will last for ever.
Like may of these ideas, this too is a bad idea, 222 check it out and tell us if I'm right or not.
Evening to all,
I did not use the foam sealant on the sp-5000. Replaced the 3 inch 16 ga wire with 12 ga wire. I took that from what irock 817 had posted on another thread here. So I could use my 16 pill amp. I also am using a antenna tuner. I left off the three bottom radial caps to let water drain out. I also Used 3m electric tape around the pl259 and SO-239 antenna connectors to keep water out of lmr-400 cable. I mounted the sp-500 to a 10 foot aluminum pipe. And stuck that inside the drain pipe on top of roof for now untill I can get a hinge plate for my tower. Antenna seems to be working just fine. I have almost no static on receive. My vswr with matcher is 1.0.1 Hopefully I did not do to bad on the install?
I did not use the foam sealant on the sp-5000. Replaced the 3 inch 16 ga wire with 12 ga wire. I took that from what irock 817 had posted on another thread here. So I could use my 16 pill amp. I also am using a antenna tuner. I left off the three bottom radial caps to let water drain out. I also Used 3m electric tape around the pl259 and SO-239 antenna connectors to keep water out of lmr-400 cable. I mounted the sp-500 to a 10 foot aluminum pipe. And stuck that inside the drain pipe on top of roof for now untill I can get a hinge plate for my tower. Antenna seems to be working just fine. I have almost no static on receive. My vswr with matcher is 1.0.1 Hopefully I did not do to bad on the install?
what is your SWR without the matcher in line?
unless you are planning to use this antenna to TX on the ham bands, there is no need to have a matcher in line.
LC
unless you are planning to use this antenna to TX on the ham bands, there is no need to have a matcher in line.
LC
Good Morning loosecannon,
Just using it on 11 meters, Vswr is right around 1.3.1 on 27.205 wIthout the matcher. I had It on the 10 ft pipe when tuning. I had trees about 12 ft away on two side of me. That thing Is no fun to tune. Lean down tune put back up. One thing I did fine strange. It would tune flat below ch 1 But the lowest I could get It In the middle of the cb band was 1.3.1 I sure wish the antenna would have been made to tune using the matching rod. And the reason for the matcher Is to use a amplifier.
Just using it on 11 meters, Vswr is right around 1.3.1 on 27.205 wIthout the matcher. I had It on the 10 ft pipe when tuning. I had trees about 12 ft away on two side of me. That thing Is no fun to tune. Lean down tune put back up. One thing I did fine strange. It would tune flat below ch 1 But the lowest I could get It In the middle of the cb band was 1.3.1 I sure wish the antenna would have been made to tune using the matching rod. And the reason for the matcher Is to use a amplifier.
1.3:1 is perfectly acceptable, even for use with an amp. When you start getting above 1.5:1 then it gets a bit dodgy with a solid state amp depending on the power level - a 100W one is going to be OK above that. Too many people waste too much time chasing 1:1 and most of those who do manage to get it only get it because they've got a lossy inefficient installation. Feedpoint impedance of a dipole is around 48 Ohms which isn't 1:1, feed point impedance of a quarter wave vertical over perfect ground is 37 Ohms and that isn't 1:1 either. One thing that is 1:1 is a dummy load but they make crap antennas.
Leave it as it is, don't waste time trying to get it better.
Leave it as it is, don't waste time trying to get it better.
Somehow, I don't think he is a low power station.
the antenna is still too "long" for 11 meters, tune it for where you operate (with out the tuner in line).
no,..... it won't directly make a difference in your signal, but, it will make your ss amp "happier".
well cbkidd1, far be it from me to tell you how to run your station, but knowing that this antenna will only handle 1500 watts; i wouldn't sweat a 1.3:1 SWR one bit.
I guess im the type that likes to have as few links in the antenna chain as possible.
all i will say is that IF it were my station, i would connect the radio to an SWR meter, then to the amp, and the amp to the already tuned antenna.
then i would measure the SWR going into the amp, and make sure that was below 1.5:1.
once that was done, i would then move the SWR meter to after the amp, and make sure my SWR out of the amp was 1.5:1 or below. then i would make a note of my PEP in wattage.
once that was done, i would install a low pas filter after the amp, then out of the filter, to the wattmeter, and i would check that adding the low pass filter didn't lower my power by too much. (this is assuming it's a solid state amp)
if all was well after this, i would run the station with the radio going to the amp, the amp to the low pass filter, and the filter to the SWR/wattmeter, then to the antenna.
maybe the difference from using the matcher to not using the matcher is not enough to notice at the receiving end, but again, im just describing how i would do it.
have fun!
LC
I guess im the type that likes to have as few links in the antenna chain as possible.
all i will say is that IF it were my station, i would connect the radio to an SWR meter, then to the amp, and the amp to the already tuned antenna.
then i would measure the SWR going into the amp, and make sure that was below 1.5:1.
once that was done, i would then move the SWR meter to after the amp, and make sure my SWR out of the amp was 1.5:1 or below. then i would make a note of my PEP in wattage.
once that was done, i would install a low pas filter after the amp, then out of the filter, to the wattmeter, and i would check that adding the low pass filter didn't lower my power by too much. (this is assuming it's a solid state amp)
if all was well after this, i would run the station with the radio going to the amp, the amp to the low pass filter, and the filter to the SWR/wattmeter, then to the antenna.
maybe the difference from using the matcher to not using the matcher is not enough to notice at the receiving end, but again, im just describing how i would do it.
have fun!
LC
You may want to simply shorten the main radiator about 4-5cm for flat SWR & lowest Reactance.
One heads-up:
Using that much power you will more than likely encounter an issue with arcing at the radial plate insulator.
I've used "Flex Seal" spray rubber to coat the insulator & radiator tubing for several inches both above and below the insulator. When water and basic atmospheric dust & dirt build up there the P500s tend to arc over above about 1KW.
I'm also an advocate of NOLOX at each section of the radiator joints, but I then like to tape over using vulcanizing rubber tape and good quality electricians tape over that to mitigate water ingress.
As Marconi stated, you can't prevent condensation - but you can prevent a waterfall from washing away the NOLOX, by tape-sealing the outside of each telescoping radiator connection point.
Regarding the top hat radials, they're more for aesthetics than functional, but the original 1st generation, 23ch P500s had the top hat radials bent down at a 45° angle, whereas the later & last Hy-gain production run of the 40ch P500s had them sticking straight out at a true horizontal,
...but I have a copy of the assembly paperwork for the 23ch, circa 1975 and the drawings picture BOTH - LoL.
Personally I like the look of lining them up parallel with the ground radials but bent down at a 45°, though it makes no performance difference either way.
Enjoy, you've got a great antenna there, should be a full S-Unit improvement over the Imax-2K.
One heads-up:
Using that much power you will more than likely encounter an issue with arcing at the radial plate insulator.
I've used "Flex Seal" spray rubber to coat the insulator & radiator tubing for several inches both above and below the insulator. When water and basic atmospheric dust & dirt build up there the P500s tend to arc over above about 1KW.
I'm also an advocate of NOLOX at each section of the radiator joints, but I then like to tape over using vulcanizing rubber tape and good quality electricians tape over that to mitigate water ingress.
As Marconi stated, you can't prevent condensation - but you can prevent a waterfall from washing away the NOLOX, by tape-sealing the outside of each telescoping radiator connection point.
Regarding the top hat radials, they're more for aesthetics than functional, but the original 1st generation, 23ch P500s had the top hat radials bent down at a 45° angle, whereas the later & last Hy-gain production run of the 40ch P500s had them sticking straight out at a true horizontal,
...but I have a copy of the assembly paperwork for the 23ch, circa 1975 and the drawings picture BOTH - LoL.
Personally I like the look of lining them up parallel with the ground radials but bent down at a 45°, though it makes no performance difference either way.
Enjoy, you've got a great antenna there, should be a full S-Unit improvement over the Imax-2K.
NB, I don't doubt the results you report, but my Eznec models for these two antennas do not predict a 1 S/U difference. That said, lots of factors have to be consider at play in Real World experiences.
I personally prefer to compare models in Free Space, but these models are over Real Earth. The SP500 is my model to specs per the manual for the new version.
I posted below the Imax antenna view with horizontal radials, and the radiating patterns for for three different models, 2 for the Imax vs. the SP500.
I also posted an overlay for the I2K with 4x72" inch horizontal radials, the other with 4x72" inch slanted down radials, and the pattern for my SP500.
As noted in this overlay, the SP500 makes the most gain, but NB the difference does not look to be enough the make 1 Sunit of difference.
Sorry the images are not real clear...I use Microsoft Snipping Tool to capture these images and they are not nearly as clear as using the PDF file feature for images.
This also seems to supports the general claim that a 5/8 wave is a 5/8 wave if the maximum current lobes are similar in height.
The SP500 = 266.5" + 4x10" Top Hat
The Imax = 284.5"
I personally prefer to compare models in Free Space, but these models are over Real Earth. The SP500 is my model to specs per the manual for the new version.
I posted below the Imax antenna view with horizontal radials, and the radiating patterns for for three different models, 2 for the Imax vs. the SP500.
I also posted an overlay for the I2K with 4x72" inch horizontal radials, the other with 4x72" inch slanted down radials, and the pattern for my SP500.
As noted in this overlay, the SP500 makes the most gain, but NB the difference does not look to be enough the make 1 Sunit of difference.
Sorry the images are not real clear...I use Microsoft Snipping Tool to capture these images and they are not nearly as clear as using the PDF file feature for images.
This also seems to supports the general claim that a 5/8 wave is a 5/8 wave if the maximum current lobes are similar in height.
The SP500 = 266.5" + 4x10" Top Hat
The Imax = 284.5"
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The following is to show what my Eznec modeling would predict regarding the issues you noted for the SP 500.
I have several old manuals for the SP500/525 made by HyGain, Telex, including the New HyGain version. They show the radiator varying in length with the older manuals showing a longer radiator at 273" inches, and over the years the radiator got shorter and shorter to today's model at 264" inches...with other lengths at different points in time.
These models also show the Top Hat radials slanted down in some versions and being flat in others. A couple of manuals show the antenna image with a slanted Top Hat, while in the same manual showing the assembly diagram indicating the Top Hat radials are flat. Apparently the Top Hat idea was not consistently applied over time. I also agree this difference likely makes little difference.
Below I made two Eznec models, one with a slanted Top Hat vs. another model with a Horizontal Top Hat. NB, if we compare these it shows us very little difference in match and the gain, but like you suggest the difference would not be detectable just using your radio.
I was surprised to see the difference in the maximum RF angles between these two models however. The slanted radial show us a drop in the maximum gain angle of 2* degrees and a small reduction in maximum gain value indicated. Here we also see a small change in match. So NB, there is a difference.
I also think this top hat design may serve more than window dressing too. I can't prove it, but I have heard that making the highest point of a vertical antenna tip larger in size...helps drain static and possibly helps minimize lightning strikes as well.
I did find out that if I removed the Top Hat and adjust the radiator length to show the same reactance and adjust the segment count so the AGT is good...then the model does show a bit less gain. I can't explain this for sure, but IMO the model has improved a bit as a result of removing the TH and thus the gain due to error has been removed...thus the gain shows a little reduction. Maybe I'll post this model later if anybody is interested.
Note: Check the images in the 2nd group of PDF files below. The first two images of the antenna dimensions were sent me years ago. They were marked as 23 channel and 40 channel, but IMO he got them backwards, because the 40 channel exhibit shows the radiator longer than the 23 channel.
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