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Quad 4EL Vertical

D

Darek

Member
Feb 11, 2020
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Good morning
I need help. Now working on 5 elements OWA Yagi. I have now bought Quad 4 elements n 11m band. I really care about the work of DX, but I also have a lot of colleagues in the area of 300 km. For this purpose I have a vertical Mantova Turbo, but after the ground wave she reaches a maximum of 250 km. I thought that Quad vertically will get the premises and it will not be worse on DX. Any manufacturer or owner of antennas advises against vertical polarization on DX. I live on a hill of 380 meters above sea level. The mast is about 11 meters high. I live above the world's largest salt mine, Wieliczka. Is it worth placing this Quad vertically? Can you somehow calculate what will happen to the quad's vertical angle?
Thank you Darek 161DL01
 
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"Any manufacturer or owner of antennas advises against vertical polarization on DX"

A load of rubbish.

250kms sounds about right for your line of sight/direct wave height ASL. I have a lot of hilltop experiences.
 
Allow me to reboot that post.. welcome to the forum. Salt mine will be WAY below the surface effects of ground on the RF fields. On a hill you will achieve a lower angle of radiation with any antenna due to the ground reflections being positively affected when hitting your main lobe again. Read up on Pseudo Brewster angles and elevated ground. So lower angles will be reinforced in all eventualities.

I think there is a language problem here. Never seen any antenna manufacturer suggest any antenna should not be vertical.

I have little experience of your specific antenna. However it is well known that ionospheric refracted RF tends to be elliptical in polarization.. neither vertical or horizontal after single or multiple ionospheric hops. So before taking anyone's word as the truth do some deeper investigations for yourself.

sp5it - Where are the studies and proof is a pertinent question ?

As such, like a very large part of this hobby it is pure luck what polarization will meet your and DX station antenna on TX and RX. Vertical is best seems like a nonsensical statement to me.

It is also not going to be fixed polarization.. it will often be in continual shifting polarization in any given moment in time so there is no fixed provable momentary guarantee of DX performance.

There will be other considerations about horizontal or vertical mount like respective beam widths and the vertical tower interacting with parasitic elements possibly effect radiation pattern and impedances.

Do some deeper research maybe sp5it can share his proven articles with you first of all.
 
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I am interested in seeing one study where this was proved. This must be critically important if it is true.

I don't believe horizontal (sorry I wrote vertical) is better for DXing. It will be pure luck what comes down and works best, be it vertical or horizontal.

Not to mention that there could be many variables relating to the performance of the horizontal / vertical antenna in question like feed point height.

Horizontal and vertical are forms of linear polarization. To say it is proven is nonsense. It is 100pct unpredictable for every single DX contact in any moment in time and is often in a constant twisting state of polarization, that is in part what causes fading as you experience cross polarization losses.

https://www.cv.nrao.edu/~demerson/ionosphere/ionopol.html

The best I have found myself to support your idea is using the word may is far from proven.

https://blog.pasternack.com/antennas/antenna-polarization-matter/

I am awaiting information from "many" sources. We cannot just dump ideas here without questioning.
 
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Arrl " when an electromag wave enters the ionophere it couples into two characteristic waves. The ordinary and extraordinary wave....thus the use of horiz or vert polarized antenna on hf is a moot with respect to polarization as one or the other or both characteristic waves will propagate"
 
This is 11m not 80m or 160m.

I am aware of ground gain from for example a horizontal dipole but that is high angle. Statistically nothing DX wise comes in more than 18 degrees on 11m and most at 5 and 9 degrees on 10/11m. So having gain at 28/29 degrees is pure wasted energy. Possibly it may help with Sporadic E but I would not bank on it.

Vertical radiation angles are greatly improved even with a ground mounted vertical, and of course better still at 5-10-15m AGL despite not having much in the way of gain.

What is better for long DX on 10/11m ?

5-8dB at 29 degrees.. or 0-1dB at 1-9 degrees ?
 
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