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RMS TO PEP

well this goes back to the there is no such thing as a dead key when everyone knows what the person means is am carrier when that term is used. so anyway i think what the original person was asking is. can you get a close guestimate of ssb PEP from just a average reading power meter ?

:roll:
 
Just get a Bird 43P and call it done...
You will have your AVG and PEAK all in 1 meter...
If anyone needs part #'s from RF PARTS? Let me know...
Ill tell you what they are...
Simple...
* Freecell is correct about the RMS though....hate to say but correct....

AM POWER
 
I'll agree with FreeCell...

I put 2 Meters in line.... When showing 4 Watts Avg. My PEP meter was reading 12 Watts about the same time...

For close guesstimation...

3 x Avg Power= PEP

PEP Divided by 3= Avg Power

Very rough but close enough for Government work... LMAO!! :p
 
Why don't we quit beating around the bush and just say Dead Key Watts. There are a few that can read past RMS WATTAGE and realize that most smoke blowers are trying to impress the newbies with technical jargon that really doesn't apply to what we're doing.

If you can afford a Dosy or a Astatic 3 meter test center, then one can afford a Palstar WM150 which is a true dual needle peak reading meter and see what the folks are talking about.

This is just beating a dead horse into the ground.
 
I agree... Nothing like getting your first amp and getting all kinds of figures of DeadKey,RMS,Peak,PEP...

What a pain the A**... And I'm not sure when someone is talking their talking in terms of Swing as RMS... PEP... ETC ETC ETC...

Thank god I'm past that part of the learning curve!
 
Aaverage Power to PEP

When I first posted this topic I didn't realise how big the can of worms I was opening was. I have now purchased a Yaesu meter that reads PEP and this tells me my amp is putting out what it is supposed to.
Thanks for the replies guys.
Murray
 
Peddler said:
Why don't we quit beating around the bush and just say Dead Key Watts. There are a few that can read past RMS WATTAGE and realize that most smoke blowers are trying to impress the newbies with technical jargon that really doesn't apply to what we're doing.

If you can afford a Dosy or a Astatic 3 meter test center, then one can afford a Palstar WM150 which is a true dual needle peak reading meter and see what the folks are talking about.

This is just beating a dead horse into the ground.

Indeed just pick up a WM150 and call it a done deal... Its about the same green.
 
we no longer live in a flat earth society, if you are simply going to take what you see on your avg reading meter with all its mechanical inaccuracies and multiply it by three and call it pep then why bother even measuring it at all just stick your thumb in and guess, trying to impress newbies or not i see no reason to misinform people with b/s just so your not rocking the citizens band boat, i dont care where anybody gets their info from, nobody is born smart there has only ever been a few smart people in history the rest learned from what these fine folk wrote down and expanded on that knowlege through their own works, thats how we got to where we are today the reason you have a computer a radio a tv and just about everything else around you, take a look around the room your sat in do you see anything that was not made by somebody that looked and learned and maybe improved on what somebody else had done before, i am just happy some people take the time to find the facts, i want to learn the present day scientifically accepted views which in all probability will be proven to be wrong in the distant future as it always has been but thats the best we can hope for unless you are that special person who will eventually be consigned to the history books as a visionary genius. and those that dont want the truth can kiss my _ _ _
 
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is this a trick question? the average of a sinewave is .636 x peak but its the rms value that is used to define the power of a sinusoidal waveform .707x peak = the equivalent heating effect in a dc circuit.
 
Oh Brother.... With all the imperfections in the world, 3 times RMS will do me fine... In 100 years it won't matter anyway... I'll be gone and there will be somebody else trying too figure out the magnitude of his laser gun with a Starduster Magnitude Meter or some such crap....

It all boils down to.... Turn it on and have fun....

Beer anyone??
 
FreeCell was just trying to forward information that would be of help on the matter.

Thats what this board is about......right.....trying to help others out in the hobby.

I think we all are talking the samething just terminologies arent meshing.

:bash
 
there is no such thing as "RMS Power" and furthermore, The RMS value of power is not the "AVERAGE" (equivalent heating) power and in fact, it doesn’t represent any useful physical quantity. The RMS and average values of nearly all waveforms are different. A notable exception is a steady DC waveform (of constant value) for which the average, RMS, and peak values are all the same.

http://www.firecommunications.com/hlsos.html
 
freecell said:
there is no such thing as "RMS Power" and furthermore, The RMS value of power is not the "AVERAGE" (equivalent heating) power and in fact, it doesn’t represent any useful physical quantity. The RMS and average values of nearly all waveforms are different. A notable exception is a steady DC waveform (of constant value) for which the average, RMS, and peak values are all the same.

http://www.firecommunications.com/rmspwr.pdf

freecell, in the strictest sense there is no such thing as the RMS value of a Power signal, but rather RMS Power describes the metrics used in the calculations. The terms Average and RMS on the meters describe how the voltages or currents are calculated. Average meters rectify the signal and average the value which works OK for DC but does not work very well for AC. RMS meters are designed to read the RMS values of a sinusoid, and True RMS meters read the RMS value of any periodic waveform.

True Power, or Average Power, can only be calculated with RMS values of voltage and/or current when the signals are time varying and periodic. RMS by definition means that its value is exactly equivalent to a DCV or DCI source of the same value. This is a fact and these values are the only values that accurately represent Joules/Second => Power...

RMS will always be asscociated with True/Average power since any other method of determining the power will give the wrong results. So that is why your hear RMS Power, plain and simple.

Here is the relationship between Average Power (Pavg) and PEP, I thought I would show the relationship between these two measurements as they relate to an AM signal that is modulated between 0% to 100% with a single tone.

The modulation index (m) is the ratio of the modulation voltage (Vm) to the carrier voltage (Vc) and this value should really never exceed 1 or the output signal will be distorted.

m = Vm / Vc

However, most people use an o'scope to view the output waveform and the modulation index can be calculated from this waveform. The maximum positive peak of the envelope is measured (Vmax) and the minimum positive peak of the envelope is measured (Vmin) and these values can be used to find m. When Vmin contacts the zero voltage level, 100% modulation is achieved.

m = (Vmax - Vmin) / (Vmax + Vmin)

Once this value is known, along with the dead key or carrier power (Pc), PEP and Pavg can be determined.

PEP = Pc x (1 + m)^2

Pavg = Pc x (1 + (m^2)/2)

Now if these equations are set up as a ratio, then the following relationships exist:

Pavg = PEP x (1 + (m^2)/2) / (1 + m)^2

PEP = Pavg x (1 + m)^2 / (1 + (m^2)/2)

So, a 100% modulated 4W carrier will produce a 16W PEP signal that is actually 6W Average and both values are based on RMS values.
 

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