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False Casualty Figures
Kevin More – iraq2005.blogspot January 20, 2005
From the Pentagon as of January 14th 2005,figures have been released at some 1361 U.S personnel killed and just over 10,000 wounded from the Iraq war and occupation. Is this a true reflection of the actual casualties or a manipulation of the figures ? The Iraq war from its inception was domestically and internationally unpopular especially as it went specifically against the will of the United Nations regarding pre-emptive war on the grounds of so called WMDs. The first casualty of war is always the truth. The war itself was instigated by the Neoconservatives in the U.S and it is they who control the Pentagon and military administration, Mr Rumsfield and Mr Wolfowitz themselves have control of the information flow out of Iraq, that will be inclusive of casualty figures released by Centcom. Is it in their interest to manipulate casualty flows ? In my opinion, most definitely, purely on the reasons that the higher the casualties the greater the resolve of Americas domestic population, starting to not only question the Iraq invasion but also the occupation and the reasons why America is still in Iraq, a hardening of public opinion against occupation and grounds to call the troops home. The greater the casualties the louder the voices will become to withdraw. This will in effect foreclose on the PNAC doctrine of pre-emptive wars around the world, which is the Neocons dream. Much is at stake for them. The true casualty figures will only be known by those at the Pentagon and a few selected personnel. Gauging previous articles and statements made from various individuals and organizations since March 2003,casualty figures can be pieced together to give a truer reflection on what the real cost in servicemen’s lives are.
In November 2003 a Surgeon at the Ramstein medical base in Germany stated that it had received 9,500 casualties from Iraq needing surgery including over 3000 amputations. In the same month a chief administrator at Baghdad airport stated that it had shipped out around 22,000 injured servicemen and women. In April 2004 the Veterans association stated that it had received 26,633 disability claims from servicemen returning from Iraq. Two months later on the McLaughlin political show aired by CNN, discussion was on a casualty figure centred around 27,000.That in its own confirms the other statistics given above. From various blogs and articles from surgeons, doctors and medical staff, it seems they were dealing with around 50 casualties a day, somewhere in the region of 1,500 a month. Now here is where I have to start speculating and piece the information together as Sherlock Holmes would do .Since April 2004 Najaf exploded in violence twice and the same can be said for Fallujah each incident taking approximately a month to contain. Both Najaf and Fallujah caused extensive resistance not only too those areas but extended out to other areas in Iraq, so that from that, there would be an increase in casualties, I would put it at double the average, around 3,000 each for these 4 months totaling 12,000 casualties. From April 2004 to today January 2005 is ten months, using the template average of 1,500 casualties per month is 15,000 and adding a further 1,500 casualties per month for those four explosive months in Najaf and Fallujah gives a further 6,000. Therefore that leaves a total of 21,000 casualties from April 2004 to date, add that to the Veterans association figures of 26,633 casualties pre April 2004 giving a total of 48,000 casualties. Using a rough guide of 1 soldier killed for every 8 wounded gives a figure of 6,000 killed.
In my opinion the true casualty figures of Iraq is around 6,000 servicemen killed and 48,000 wounded. Totaling 54,000.If my figures are accurate then the pentagon is only reporting, making public 20% of the casualties. Many people will state this cannot be possible. They cannot hide that amount. Vietnam was a good reflection initially 6,000 Kia were reported later that rose to 58,000 and later a further 40,000 were deemed missing in action .So if Vietnam is anything to judge, then most certainly casualty figures are manipulated for public consumption
iraq2005.blogspot.com/200...es_20.html
NOTE
As the above report suggests, it is more than likely that US casualty figures are being manipulated. So as to minimise the negative impact on public opinion only the barest minimum are being reported. This has been further substantiated by reports and photographs of mass graves in Iraq, containing the bodies of U.S. servicemen. This cover-up has been further assisted by the fact that more than 30,000 US service personnel are not US citizens, but are actually serving in the US military in order to obtain US citizenship. That being the case with these so-called ‘Green Card Soldiers’, the US military authorities are under no obligation to publicly acknowledge their deaths. Indeed, concealing the real US casualty figures has now become something of a US military tradition, as the following article reveals. Ed.
U.S. Suffered Over 20,000 More Military Dead During Vietnam War Than Previously Reported
By Ted Sampley – U.S. Veteran Dispatch, September 1998
The U.S. Veteran Dispatch has uncovered Pentagon records revealing that the United States suffered nearly 20,000 more fatalities during the Vietnam War era than the 58,182 servicemen whose names are engraved on the National Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C.
According to a U.S. Army file called TAGCEN which contains over 293,000 Army casualty records, there are 19,644 U.S. Army servicemen who were killed or died between January 1, 1965 and December 31, 1975 that are not counted as Vietnam war dead because their death certificates were written in other countries, including the United States.
There are two versions of TAGCEN, one for public use and one for internal government use.
To verify the information presented in this article, U.S. Army casualty records were cross-referenced between the Pentagon's Combat Area Casualties Current File (CACCF) and the TAGCEN file dating between the years 1965 and 1975.
There is a difference between the files of approximately 500 Vietnam service records, which means the 19,644 number could be 500 higher.
The CACCF file contains 58,200 plus records of men from all services who are listed as died in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War. Those names are chiseled into the National Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C. and the CACCF file is available to the public.
Of the total names in the CACCF file, 37,942 are of Army killed or missing during the time frame January 1, 1965 to December 31, 1975 and are listed on The Wall.
When the 37,942 is subtracted from the 57,586 Army dead or missing the Pentagon has recorded in TAGCEN for 1965 to 1975, there is a difference of 19,644 Army dead.
Casualty records and files which record the Marine Corps, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard killed and wounded outside of the Vietnam War zone during the 1965-75 time frame remain unavailable. The number of servicemen from those branches whose deaths were recorded in other countries is believed to be significantly high.
If casualty files for those branches were made public and added to the Army casualties, it is estimated that the number of fatalities could be as high as 30,000 more than the Vietnam-era dead claimed by the Pentagon.
It has long been known that servicemen who died outside Vietnam as a result of wounds they received in Southeast Asia were not counted as Vietnam war dead, but the exact number of those casualties has never been made public.
Even if a number of the fatalities are not related to the Vietnam combat area, there is no way the United States lost 30,000 servicemen from 1965 to 1975 because of accidents, crime, health problems, etc.
From January 1965 until December 1975, Pentagon records show 57,586 U.S. Army servicemen died in the following countries:
North Vietnam — 11
South Vietnam — 37,259
Cambodia — 421
Czechoslovakia — 14
France — 31
Germany — 2,329
Italy — 36
Japan — 66
Laos — 134
Mexico — 11
Okinawa — 50
Panama — 49
South Korea — 438
Thailand — 167
United States — 16,004
Classified (CIA/Special Forces Operations)— 71
Other Countries such as Albania, Belgium, Liberia, Venezuela, etc. — 495
Total — 57,586
In June, to help further explore these findings, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch posted the casualty figures on several internet newsgroups which deal with the Vietnam War. There were a number of responses, some which challenged the validity of our sources and some which offered more information.
The list below is an example of the Army casualties by year in South Vietnam and the United States.
Note as the number of Army personnel killed in South Vietnam began to climb in 1965, the Army dead in the United States increased correspondingly until 1971 when more soldiers died in the United States than in Vietnam.
Even though by 1973 the U.S. was backing out of the Vietnam War and U.S. casualties in Vietnam had dropped significantly, Army soldiers continued to die back home in the States.
1965 South Vietnam - 1,080
United States - 0
1966 South Vietnam - 3,770
United States - 714
1967 South Vietnam - 6,470
United States - 1,588
1968 South Vietnam - 10,595
United States - 1,887
1969 South Vietnam - 8,192
United States - 2,068
1970 South Vietnam - 4,643
United States - 1,876
1971 South Vietnam - 2,066
United States - 2,193
1972 South Vietnam - 362
United States - 1,795
1973 South Vietnam - 26
United States - 1,508
1974 South Vietnam - 40
United States - 1,231
1975 South Vietnam - 13
United States - 1,134
</p>
Kevin More – iraq2005.blogspot January 20, 2005
From the Pentagon as of January 14th 2005,figures have been released at some 1361 U.S personnel killed and just over 10,000 wounded from the Iraq war and occupation. Is this a true reflection of the actual casualties or a manipulation of the figures ? The Iraq war from its inception was domestically and internationally unpopular especially as it went specifically against the will of the United Nations regarding pre-emptive war on the grounds of so called WMDs. The first casualty of war is always the truth. The war itself was instigated by the Neoconservatives in the U.S and it is they who control the Pentagon and military administration, Mr Rumsfield and Mr Wolfowitz themselves have control of the information flow out of Iraq, that will be inclusive of casualty figures released by Centcom. Is it in their interest to manipulate casualty flows ? In my opinion, most definitely, purely on the reasons that the higher the casualties the greater the resolve of Americas domestic population, starting to not only question the Iraq invasion but also the occupation and the reasons why America is still in Iraq, a hardening of public opinion against occupation and grounds to call the troops home. The greater the casualties the louder the voices will become to withdraw. This will in effect foreclose on the PNAC doctrine of pre-emptive wars around the world, which is the Neocons dream. Much is at stake for them. The true casualty figures will only be known by those at the Pentagon and a few selected personnel. Gauging previous articles and statements made from various individuals and organizations since March 2003,casualty figures can be pieced together to give a truer reflection on what the real cost in servicemen’s lives are.
In November 2003 a Surgeon at the Ramstein medical base in Germany stated that it had received 9,500 casualties from Iraq needing surgery including over 3000 amputations. In the same month a chief administrator at Baghdad airport stated that it had shipped out around 22,000 injured servicemen and women. In April 2004 the Veterans association stated that it had received 26,633 disability claims from servicemen returning from Iraq. Two months later on the McLaughlin political show aired by CNN, discussion was on a casualty figure centred around 27,000.That in its own confirms the other statistics given above. From various blogs and articles from surgeons, doctors and medical staff, it seems they were dealing with around 50 casualties a day, somewhere in the region of 1,500 a month. Now here is where I have to start speculating and piece the information together as Sherlock Holmes would do .Since April 2004 Najaf exploded in violence twice and the same can be said for Fallujah each incident taking approximately a month to contain. Both Najaf and Fallujah caused extensive resistance not only too those areas but extended out to other areas in Iraq, so that from that, there would be an increase in casualties, I would put it at double the average, around 3,000 each for these 4 months totaling 12,000 casualties. From April 2004 to today January 2005 is ten months, using the template average of 1,500 casualties per month is 15,000 and adding a further 1,500 casualties per month for those four explosive months in Najaf and Fallujah gives a further 6,000. Therefore that leaves a total of 21,000 casualties from April 2004 to date, add that to the Veterans association figures of 26,633 casualties pre April 2004 giving a total of 48,000 casualties. Using a rough guide of 1 soldier killed for every 8 wounded gives a figure of 6,000 killed.
In my opinion the true casualty figures of Iraq is around 6,000 servicemen killed and 48,000 wounded. Totaling 54,000.If my figures are accurate then the pentagon is only reporting, making public 20% of the casualties. Many people will state this cannot be possible. They cannot hide that amount. Vietnam was a good reflection initially 6,000 Kia were reported later that rose to 58,000 and later a further 40,000 were deemed missing in action .So if Vietnam is anything to judge, then most certainly casualty figures are manipulated for public consumption
iraq2005.blogspot.com/200...es_20.html
NOTE
As the above report suggests, it is more than likely that US casualty figures are being manipulated. So as to minimise the negative impact on public opinion only the barest minimum are being reported. This has been further substantiated by reports and photographs of mass graves in Iraq, containing the bodies of U.S. servicemen. This cover-up has been further assisted by the fact that more than 30,000 US service personnel are not US citizens, but are actually serving in the US military in order to obtain US citizenship. That being the case with these so-called ‘Green Card Soldiers’, the US military authorities are under no obligation to publicly acknowledge their deaths. Indeed, concealing the real US casualty figures has now become something of a US military tradition, as the following article reveals. Ed.
U.S. Suffered Over 20,000 More Military Dead During Vietnam War Than Previously Reported
By Ted Sampley – U.S. Veteran Dispatch, September 1998
The U.S. Veteran Dispatch has uncovered Pentagon records revealing that the United States suffered nearly 20,000 more fatalities during the Vietnam War era than the 58,182 servicemen whose names are engraved on the National Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C.
According to a U.S. Army file called TAGCEN which contains over 293,000 Army casualty records, there are 19,644 U.S. Army servicemen who were killed or died between January 1, 1965 and December 31, 1975 that are not counted as Vietnam war dead because their death certificates were written in other countries, including the United States.
There are two versions of TAGCEN, one for public use and one for internal government use.
To verify the information presented in this article, U.S. Army casualty records were cross-referenced between the Pentagon's Combat Area Casualties Current File (CACCF) and the TAGCEN file dating between the years 1965 and 1975.
There is a difference between the files of approximately 500 Vietnam service records, which means the 19,644 number could be 500 higher.
The CACCF file contains 58,200 plus records of men from all services who are listed as died in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War. Those names are chiseled into the National Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C. and the CACCF file is available to the public.
Of the total names in the CACCF file, 37,942 are of Army killed or missing during the time frame January 1, 1965 to December 31, 1975 and are listed on The Wall.
When the 37,942 is subtracted from the 57,586 Army dead or missing the Pentagon has recorded in TAGCEN for 1965 to 1975, there is a difference of 19,644 Army dead.
Casualty records and files which record the Marine Corps, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard killed and wounded outside of the Vietnam War zone during the 1965-75 time frame remain unavailable. The number of servicemen from those branches whose deaths were recorded in other countries is believed to be significantly high.
If casualty files for those branches were made public and added to the Army casualties, it is estimated that the number of fatalities could be as high as 30,000 more than the Vietnam-era dead claimed by the Pentagon.
It has long been known that servicemen who died outside Vietnam as a result of wounds they received in Southeast Asia were not counted as Vietnam war dead, but the exact number of those casualties has never been made public.
Even if a number of the fatalities are not related to the Vietnam combat area, there is no way the United States lost 30,000 servicemen from 1965 to 1975 because of accidents, crime, health problems, etc.
From January 1965 until December 1975, Pentagon records show 57,586 U.S. Army servicemen died in the following countries:
North Vietnam — 11
South Vietnam — 37,259
Cambodia — 421
Czechoslovakia — 14
France — 31
Germany — 2,329
Italy — 36
Japan — 66
Laos — 134
Mexico — 11
Okinawa — 50
Panama — 49
South Korea — 438
Thailand — 167
United States — 16,004
Classified (CIA/Special Forces Operations)— 71
Other Countries such as Albania, Belgium, Liberia, Venezuela, etc. — 495
Total — 57,586
In June, to help further explore these findings, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch posted the casualty figures on several internet newsgroups which deal with the Vietnam War. There were a number of responses, some which challenged the validity of our sources and some which offered more information.
The list below is an example of the Army casualties by year in South Vietnam and the United States.
Note as the number of Army personnel killed in South Vietnam began to climb in 1965, the Army dead in the United States increased correspondingly until 1971 when more soldiers died in the United States than in Vietnam.
Even though by 1973 the U.S. was backing out of the Vietnam War and U.S. casualties in Vietnam had dropped significantly, Army soldiers continued to die back home in the States.
1965 South Vietnam - 1,080
United States - 0
1966 South Vietnam - 3,770
United States - 714
1967 South Vietnam - 6,470
United States - 1,588
1968 South Vietnam - 10,595
United States - 1,887
1969 South Vietnam - 8,192
United States - 2,068
1970 South Vietnam - 4,643
United States - 1,876
1971 South Vietnam - 2,066
United States - 2,193
1972 South Vietnam - 362
United States - 1,795
1973 South Vietnam - 26
United States - 1,508
1974 South Vietnam - 40
United States - 1,231
1975 South Vietnam - 13
United States - 1,134
</p>
