Tram Titan II Help- Keyup "tone" when volume over 2

[Crazy_D]

I have a completely stock mint condition Tram Titan 2 that is using a D104 Gstand, so its a element only setup. It was super loud as hell so I replaced the input 220K ohm resistor to a 1 Meg and it made the D104 element usable and not over bearing. I noticed when I key up the radio when the volume is over the 2 position on the control I get a keyup tone, similar to a browning but more lowered pitched. If I key the radio up with volume control less than 2 it is fine. This also occured on the stock tram mic. Has anyone had this similar thing occur to them? I don't mind this keyup sound but I would like to atleast know what it is being caused by. I have not dug deep into the circuits or schematics yet. It could be a leaky cap. I plan on doing a complete overhaul of every single capacitor. Thanks for any insight on what might be causing this keyup sound when I turn my volume higher than 2. Thanks

 

[midnight special]

i would guess maybe the relay needs to be cleaned,,, this radio doesnt have transistor relay i beleive it is mechanical relay and they might be corroded or out of adjustment,,, i had a colt years ago where when you key up it would squeek on keyup and would be louder with volume turned up ,,, i cleaned the relays real good with contact cleaner and a dollar bill,,, it went away,,

 

[Crazy_D]

i would guess maybe the relay needs to be cleaned,,, this radio doesnt have transistor relay i beleive it is mechanical relay and they might be corroded or out of adjustment,,, i had a colt years ago where when you key up it would squeek on keyup and would be louder with volume turned up ,,, i cleaned the relays real good with contact cleaner and a dollar bill,,, it went away,,

I will try cleaning the relay. I cleaned all the tube pins and sockets. This radio is like new, no corrosion anywhere.... the cleanest one I have seen. I tested the .002 uf coupling caps between the Volume and Limiter circuit and they read a little low, 1.5 and 1.6 nf, when they should be reading around 2nf like some others inside the radio I tested as well.... I think a full recap and a relay clean will help this out and probably improve the rest of the radio, my keyup squawk seems to come and go as some times I can't make it happen.... I might try swapping 12ax7 tubes on volume circuit to rule out tube issue.

 

[BBB]

Got any photos of the "cleanest one I have seen" please kind sir

 

[Crazy_D]

I have tried cleaning the relay with both relay contact spray and also a dollar bill. it did not fix the squawking issue but it did give me a little better clearer/cleaner signal/audio on transmit when I listened to myself on my own watergate that I use for audio quality testing.

BBB, I have not taken any pictures of this mint tram yet but intend to do so. I have seen you post on other websites and seen you also own a tram titan 2 as well. There is literally ZERO scratches, ZERO corrosion, ZERO rust on this unit, which is unreal as they all corrode and paint flakes off cover, etc... I have owned several tram titan 2's over the years and other radios and this is the cleanest 1960's radio I have seen to date.. It looks like someone kept it in a box and kept it in a proper temperature and humidity, a true time capsule from September 13th 1967 (date stamp of radio). I also have a similar condition Browning Golden Eagle Mark 2 that is as perfect as you could find, it took me TWENTY YEARS(!) to track down that down and these radios will go to the grave with me.

the audio of this tram is excellent, mated to a D104 G-Stand, (which I had to change the input resistance on the 6au6a mic preamp input, because it was too loud, too much gain/squealed) it gives me excellent plate modulation. I have mint Blackcat JB150A that is inline with the tram titan 2 and gives me the sound that any D201/A owner would be jealous of when I click that bad boy on! wow!

 

[Crazy_D]

Ok process of elimination, I swapped out the 12AX7 (squelch/AF amp) and the 6al5 (anl/det) with two different NOS versions and no-go, still had the keyup squawk, not a tube issue. I will report back with a update once I completely recap this entire radio, however I will be doing it circuit by circuit so I can nail down if its just low cap values, since I measured 1.5nf, 1.6nf on two caps those should read 2nf or more like some of the other 2nf caps inside, so regardless how pristine the radio is, it will always need to be recapped as this radio is now approaching 50 years old!!! I plan to use this radio for the next 30 years or until I die, I like the dial indicator, and the best part about this radio is the huge 60db meter, it gives you the most range you ever seen, meaning you can see the slightest of differences on the signal if someone makes a change or such. I love the receiver, even though it doesn't have the dual nuvistor that my browning mark 2 receiver has, which is a better receiver than the tram, the tram still holds it own and has a very clean, clear sound out of the stock 4x6 speaker, not too bassy, more on the upper midrange level, which is what I prefer and it has that smooth tube sound but its not too warm or deep which is good, as that muddles people up.

 

[BBB]

If just cleaning the relay didn't solve your key up feedback squawk issue maybe the fingers in the relay are out of timing or more than likely the switch fingers in the mics are out of timing. This is a common issue with D104s, Turner +2s, Super Sidekicks mics, etc or any relay that uses brass or steel "fingers" as the contact medium.

Basically sounds like the transmitter section is being engaged for a spit section before the receiver section disengages. Of course this sound is desirable in a browning Mark III. Maybe the previous owner added a cap to do just that in this rig.

Did you ever confirm if the squawk sound is being broadcast or do you just hear it in your speaker?

 

[Crazy_D]

If just cleaning the relay didn't solve your key up feedback squawk issue maybe the fingers in the relay are out of timing or more than likely the switch fingers in the mics are out of timing. This is a common issue with D104s, Turner +2s, Super Sidekicks mics, etc or any relay that uses brass or steel "fingers" as the contact medium.

Basically sounds like the transmitter section is being engaged for a spit section before the receiver section disengages. Of course this sound is desirable in a browning Mark III. Maybe the previous owner added a cap to do just that in this rig.

Did you ever confirm if the squawk sound is being broadcast or do you just hear it in your speaker?

BBB,

I have done lots of in-depth research and studying schematics circuitry into this as its really got my curiosity. I am going to be ordering parts for a complete recap for this radio this week.... When I key up there is a forward "thrush" for a quick moment, the needle bursts forward and if the channel is spotted on freq you get a momentary squawk on that initial thrush when you key, yes similar to a browning but not a squeal, the mic or position of the mic has no bearing on the squawk so the issue is in the radio, I tried 3 other mics I had laying around (cobra handheld power mic, sadelta echo master pro and a stock mic), however in this case I think the issue might be cap values have drifted over almost 50 years now. Now this only occurs when the front volume control is over the 2 position out of ten. So its not a constant occuring this, it is related to the variance of the resistance in the volume/squelch/anl/dect/etc circuits, could even be a leaky cap at the one of the tubes. Also, if you turn the limiter on and over 6 it also eliminates the squawk on keyup but your receive sucks at that point (I run my tram with the limiter turned off for best sound out of the internal speaker). the rear monitor volume control also can affect the squawk but to a lesser degree. I tried bypassing the monitor volume circuit and its not that circuit. So as you see its gotta be a part or something as it sometimes doesnt do it from time to time. I measured some of the caps inside and they were 35% or more out of original value, which could create issues with timings of circuits.

Something tells me I had this same problem on my last tram titan 2 years ago but i really don't remember as I did not own it for very long before someone made me a killer offer. I guess a 100% working tram titan 2 is becoming rare these days.

BTW, my tram titan 2 is the earlier version with the 6GK6 audio power tube. By itself it sounds fine and is loud but does not have the "balls" and power and a very big sound like you get with a D201/A, it is somewhat narrower in all those regards. However if you mate it up with a 8417 amp (8417 has very high gain) then it will totally come alive. I will be doing a 6GM5 swap soon (used on the later Tram Titan 2's, physically twice as large as a 6gk6) (requires socket rewiring and a part value change) and will post my audio results impressions with this larger audio tube. The 6GM5 is basically in the family of the 6l6 variants so I expect a larger, more punchier and expansive type of sound like you get with the Tram D201/A.

 

[Eastside]

I have a completely stock mint condition Tram Titan 2 that is using a D104 Gstand, so its a element only setup. It was super loud as hell so I replaced the input 220K ohm resistor to a 1 Meg and it made the D104 element usable and not over bearing. I noticed when I key up the radio when the volume is over the 2 position on the control I get a keyup tone, similar to a browning but more lowered pitched. If I key the radio up with volume control less than 2 it is fine. This also occured on the stock tram mic. Has anyone had this similar thing occur to them? I don't mind this keyup sound but I would like to atleast know what it is being caused by. I have not dug deep into the circuits or schematics yet. It could be a leaky cap. I plan on doing a complete overhaul of every single capacitor. Thanks for any insight on what might be causing this keyup sound when I turn my volume higher than 2. Thanks

Ive 2 Tram non powered D104's and one make a kinda church bell sound when you key up.....I think its the key up bar on the side of the D104....the radio has so much gain its picking up the sound of the mic keying up.....I could only hear this because I was using a AM demodulator.....brownings make that sound becuz of a capacitor causing it to feed back.

 

[Crazy_D]

BBB, check eastsides tram no audio post, 2nd page, the pictures of my titan 2 are in there.

UPDATE: I placed a capacitor/resistor order today for the restoration. I found I had (3) new 47uf/450v caps and (2)0.47uf caps in my inventory so I bypassed the main 40/40/40uf cap with those 47uf caps and located them underneath. I cut the legs off the main cap and now its just sitting there. I am going to probably drill out the rivets and remove this cap and the 10/10/20uf cap because it will give me two more holes for airflow as I have my Titan 2 sitting on a 300amp unregulated Davemade power supply which sucks all the heat from the tram and it runs slightly above room temps and it runs super stable, its on 24 hours a day. I think the two stock big caps look cool but it would also look alot emptier inside without them but it would open up to more holes I could use to get air through the radio. The two .47 caps I replaced where from the transmit osc and 2nd sb IF amp circuit. MY KEYUP SQUAWK AT VOLUME 2 IS GONE SO FAR..... I can still get it but I have to go to volume 3 or higher, so I essentially fixed it for my usage as 3 is wayyy too loud anyways.

 

[kc4eoe]

I am currently completing restoration of a Tram Titan IV and it also came with the original D-104-G mic. I have to keep the radio mic gain down midway to tame the modulation this beast has out of that one tube final. I get a clean key down, but get the "rush" noise when I un-key as well as an occasional "chirp". It is not heard on transmission, only on my end. I have gotten used to the 'Ka-Choo" when I un-key and I tend to like it. The last thing I need for it are the wooden sides which were missing. I have considered cutting clear lexan instead to make it unique with the insides visible from each end.