What are the best and worst vehicles to run power in?

[loosecannon]

hi all.

im hoping that a lot of people will share their experiences with running linear amps in newer cars with computers in them.

this seems to be a subject in which there are many problems, but not many solutions.

maybe if enough of us post what cars we had trouble with, and what that trouble was, whether it is that you cant run power without messing with the cars computer, or that the radio is receiving interference from the vehicle;
(ie: ford fuel pump issue) we can help to find a solution that works for everyone.

i will start.

i own a dodge stratus 1998 that i simply CANNOT run a linear in because of the way the computer gets its information from the engine.

the chrysler way is to use hall effect devices to send the correct pulse to the computer from the camshaft and the crankshaft, to get the correct engine timing and fuel injector performance.

the RF from a 2 pill amp really messes with this pulse signal, and causes the car to sputter and die.

i have tried everything. shielding, chokes, grounding, bonding, low pass filters, everything.
its not gonna happen with this car.

anyone else running power in a late model dodge/chrysler vehicle?
i would love to hear your stories!

SO!

i am about ready to trade this car in on something a little newer, and i want to choose a vehicle that will allow me to run some power in it.
(just a 4 pill. thats it.LOL)

im looking at chevy/gmc mid size trucks and the safari/astro vans.
1999-2002 will be my range.

please share your experiences so that we all may learn here.
what car?
how much power?
what problems?


thanks!
LC

 

[kd-5-bgt]

Hi there Cannon!

This should be an interesting thread to keep an eye on.

The only experience with this trouble that I have had here was with a 91 Chevy S-10 pickup..,2.8 V6 engine and 5 speed.

I run across a Texas Star hd 350 once and decidied to drop it in that truck behind a Uniden Grant XL and into a 4 foot Firestick 2.

It didnt matter if I was running the amp on low power when I would hit the key....the truck would all but die when I was running down the road to just die when parked with engine running.

After a day or two of this I went to the dealership that I had bought the truck from and talked to one of the mechanics (who was a personal friend of mine.) ....he told me that the amp was just to big for the trucks power system(drawing to much power) and stood a very good chance of scrambling the trucks computer......His advice was to get a smaller amp .....150 watts or less.

So I traded the 350 for a 100 watt and never had another bit of trouble after that....and worked all of North America with that set up, and also hit England once for a couple of minutes till the conditions changed on me on sideband...AM I had very nice results as well,able to talk up to 35 to 50 miles easily(non DX conditions,never tried AM dx on that radio) in the area that I lived in(Hot Springs Arkansas area) at the time that I had that truck.

I have found that running alot of power isn't always needed,usually 200 watts will get you just as far as 1000 in most all cases

 

[davegrantsr]

past & present, my vehicle or vehicles of others, unless i note it, there was NO PROBLEM:
1999 dodge intrepid cobra 148fgtl + dx667v roof mount wilson (stock alt)
1999 dodge intrepid grant lt + 2x6 fatboy trunk mount 102" whip (stock alt}
1999 dodge durango grant xl + 2x8 davemade triple mag mount predator (stock 136 amp alt)
1998 dodge durango cobra 29 + 5x16 messenger homemade coil through roof(220 amp alterstart)
1998 dodge quad cab galaxy & dx667v would NOT run right til mag mount was swapped for drilled roof mount & double shielded coax
2000 cherokee cobra 148fgtldx + dx250 + dx1600 predator roof mount (stock 137 amp alt)
2002 avalanche cobra 29 + 5 pill custom mag mount wilson (stock alt)
1999 tahoe connex 4800 + 2 pill + 8 pill davemade roof mount 5' skipshooter (stock alt)
1996 suburban grant xl + 3cx15000a dual homemade coils (lots of alts)
2001(?) olds alero magnum 257 + 2 pill magnaforce mag mount wilson-dx500 caused car to 'buck & stutter' sometimes, different mount & coax may have resolved problem
1992 camry ft857 & mag mount-computer DIED no more then 100 watts
later 90's camry ts50 + dx500 trunk mount wilson lmr600 runs OK
1992 explorer galaxy + boomer 600 mag mount no problems except flashing idiot lights & HORRENDOUS vehicle generated noise-never resolved
1996(?) impala wagon galaxy 95 + dx1600, predator (custom wound alt, MAYBE 140 amp)
2001(?) impala ? + dx400 mag mount (stock alt) idiot lights flash

i'm tired.....can't think of the rest! MY personal vehicles never experienced vehicle generated noise except for an exploer, so i sold it! others have stated no noise in explorers. japanese cars of late 90's on seem to have most problems. and cars seem to have more then trucks, i told a guy how to set up his 2005 f350 super duty diesel 4x4 with a dx1600. he was successful & i talk to him every month or so when he passes through. 2003 & on chevy car with the stereo that resets indicators & i believe is tied to computer somehow, know of one that had 2x2879 & with mag mount & 9913 NOTHING could be done to stop windshield wipers from working when keying mic, cruise control would shut off & a few other nuisances, went to ic706 & tarheel(?), problems gone with less then 100 watts, maybe around 80.

not sure why you had trouble with the stratus, 'cannon. i've OWNED & setup for others even more dodge's then listed above. have NOT had one 'not respond' to attempts to get an amp in them. i too was told YOU CANNOT FORCE THAT MUCH RF IN & AROUND THE COMPUTER without problems!!!! 1.5 kw with a mag mount! 3+kw! even 150 watts benefitted from double shielded coax in some vehicles as noted by eliminating flashing idiot lights. honestly though, i don't know of anybody running ANY power other then an S9-80 in a hemi ram truck, 2006 or 07. also know of a ham with an 07 gmc with a screwdriver antenna & a 706 i think with no troubles. i don't know where to draw the line with watts vs year. at 30 grand for a new truck, i don't want to smoke it! i have seen & heard of the computer being removed, wrapped in foil & grounded along with encasing some wires inside of braided shield which was grounded, but i have no idea if it helps.

hope this helps!

 

[loosecannon]

dave thanks for that list!

it was inspiring and frustrating all at the same time!LOL


good to know that other dodges have worked, but why wont mine!?

i have the antenna hard mounted CORRECTLY!
i changed out the stock wilson coax for LMR240.
i shielded and grounded the computer, and ran shielded wires for the cam and crank sensors.
nothing works.
has problems with amp even on lowest setting.

thanks again,
any other memories that come to you i would be glad to hear.
later,
LC

 

[steved]

Sounds like the errant, off-frequency, RF is possibly causing the problem?

 

[steved]

What kind of amp???

 

[loosecannon]

its a cobra 148gtl (with AMC in radio!)

outputting 2 watts deadkey with 8-10 watts avg. swing.

im using all RG-8 mini coax jumpers. (good quality, PL-259's put on by me. the right way. i am good at them!)

amp is a DX400 (4x2290).
this problem was the same when i was using a DX250 (2x2290).

out of the amp is a jumper to a Drake 1000 watt low pass filter that is mounted to the chassis under the seat.

out of the low pass filter is LMR240 to the wilson 1000 which is hard mounted to the center of the roof.

SWR into the amp is 1.2 to 1.

SWR out of amp (i hook up the meter to test, but dont leave it in line) is
1.5 to 1 with amp on high.

amp is powered with 8 ga. wire running right to the battery terminals. (both pos. and neg.)

battery is only 3 mos. old.
alternator is new also, and upgraded to 130 amp version.

wire going from alternator to positive terminal has been upgraded to 8ga.
ground straps have been put on trunk, doors, hood, and from alternator case to vehicle body.

i have driven this amp and the DX-250 with a stock 959, and a cobra 29ltd, and they all do the same thing.

engine sputters, RPM's drop intermittantly, and engine dies if i modulate long enough.

check engine light comes on and gives code for "intermittent signal from crank or cam position sensor."

yes, im also thinking stray RF, as my deadkeys dont seem to kill the engine, its modulation that does it, but no amount of shielding seems to help at all.

i am using the right type of ferrite, i have wrapped shielded wires around the chokes and put them at both the sensor and the computer end, and grounded the shields at both ends to the chassis.

i am stumped!

anyway, enough of my venting.
this thread is about more than just my problems.LOL

lets keep it going!
please add your experiences!
LC

 

[Dodgem250]

Old Dodge Pickup Trucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That fancy computer just won't handle too much RF!

Dodgem

 

[steved]

Old Dodge Pickup Trucks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That fancy computer just won't handle too much RF!

Dodgem

I know of at least two guys running 2x4 amps in 3rd generation trucks without issue?? You can't get much more errant RF than a 2 driving 4 setup...

 

[davegrantsr]

look at my list of dodge's that i personally know of! there is now a 'new-body-style' durango floating around here supposedly with a custom 4 pill & cobra 29 & some type of 4-5' 'glas antenna on a tri mag mount. it talks, because i've heard him on ch 6 get out.....

 

[loosecannon]

anyone ever had any trouble with a 2000-2005 chevy astro/gmc safari?
LC

 

[Dodgem250]

I know of at least two guys running 2x4 amps in 3rd generation trucks without issue?? You can't get much more errant RF than a 2 driving 4 setup...

Like he said, that's all great and good and I'm really glad that those guys are not having any issues with "their" trucks, BUT, I am having the issue, and I'm curious to know what the problem is myself.

I've notice with my truck, that when I have the power mic gain down low, it's fine, when I turn the power gain up it starts in with that stupid rough idle thing. and this is with a dead key, not audio. I have a simple rig in the truck now, just a peaked 29LTD Classic and I'm down to a Hustler Mag. Mount... AND DO NOT TELL ME IT"S THE ANTENNA!!!!!! This is the 4th, yes, 4th antenna I've tried, and I have also tried these setups with a stock 4 watt 29 LTD, they all have the same affect on the trucks idle.

The only possible link is the RF getting caught up in the ECU. This is a 1986 Dodge D100 Ram by the way, my other truck, which was a power house on wheels was a 1985 D250, and I could run thousands of watts in that truck, but this new truck is a whole different mystery to me, never seen anything like it. So, I too understand the aggravation of the radio that won't talk in the pick'em truck.

But, I can live without talking on the radio in the truck while driving anyway, I do the majority of my talking while setting at the work bench fixing everyone else's radios LOL. So, I only make use of the mobile unit while participating in lunch time activities at the day work 20, and with the truck not running, it's all aces.

Dodgem250.com

 

[formulamojo]

its a cobra 148gtl (with AMC in radio!)

outputting 2 watts deadkey with 8-10 watts avg. swing.

im using all RG-8 mini coax jumpers. (good quality, PL-259's put on by me. the right way. i am good at them!)

amp is a DX400 (4x2290).
this problem was the same when i was using a DX250 (2x2290).

out of the amp is a jumper to a Drake 1000 watt low pass filter that is mounted to the chassis under the seat.

out of the low pass filter is LMR240 to the wilson 1000 which is hard mounted to the center of the roof.

SWR into the amp is 1.2 to 1.

SWR out of amp (i hook up the meter to test, but dont leave it in line) is
1.5 to 1 with amp on high.

amp is powered with 8 ga. wire running right to the battery terminals. (both pos. and neg.)

battery is only 3 mos. old.
alternator is new also, and upgraded to 130 amp version.

wire going from alternator to positive terminal has been upgraded to 8ga.
ground straps have been put on trunk, doors, hood, and from alternator case to vehicle body.

i have driven this amp and the DX-250 with a stock 959, and a cobra 29ltd, and they all do the same thing.

engine sputters, RPM's drop intermittantly, and engine dies if i modulate long enough.

check engine light comes on and gives code for "intermittent signal from crank or cam position sensor."

yes, im also thinking stray RF, as my deadkeys dont seem to kill the engine, its modulation that does it, but no amount of shielding seems to help at all.

i am using the right type of ferrite, i have wrapped shielded wires around the chokes and put them at both the sensor and the computer end, and grounded the shields at both ends to the chassis.

i am stumped!

anyway, enough of my venting.
this thread is about more than just my problems.LOL

lets keep it going!
please add your experiences!
LC

Have you grounded the body to the frame and the battery and amp directly to the frame?

 

[freecell]

eliminate any and all instances where MORE THAN ONE GROUND CONNECTION PATH exists between any two pieces of equipment. the vehicles in question ARE NOT the problem.

Professional Installation Mobile Primer

 

[fourstringburn]

eliminate any and all instances where MORE THAN ONE GROUND CONNECTION PATH exists between any two pieces of equipment. the vehicles in question ARE NOT the problem.

Professional Installation Mobile Primer

ha! ha! ha!