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What is Your Favorite Base Antenna?

You are right King, but you can usually tell a question is asked when you see a sentence that is in the form of a question, and it should have a ? at the end. Unlike you, I did look back and you did allude to several aspects of my questions, but maybe you could clairfy on those below. We are curious to hear what you have to say.

I asked the following specific questions.

King, do they have steppir motors at all elements? Maybe you can fill us in on all of the details, just how this particular antenna really works. How do you know the element has extended or retracted properly?They talk about reversing the bi-directional quality in two seconds. Does this mean the antenna is a bi-directional gain antenna? The controller must be a computer interface to do all that adjusting of the ribbon type copper elements, right?

You also make the following statement.
again is no way a Maco can even come close to that of a steppir....even in comparing the frequencys that the maco is intended for...even then the Steppir kills the maco..... and then there are all those other frequency's..

Can you explain how this is possible, since gain is not a condition that is significantly determined by simply tuning an element to resonance and match? Can I assume that you are saying that tuning on the fly, however that is physically done with the Steppir, is the bases of your knowing what the gain is in the steppir at any given frequency in the range you note, and that the Steppir is always improved over any possible configuration in the basic fixed setup type yagi with any give number of elements and boom length used as in a Maco?

Since the steppir also has fixed spacing, how does it deal with the spacing factors for different bands? Computer optomizing procedures have been developed in modeling for modern yagi beams in recent years. This is a factor that is directly related to maximizing gain, rejection, or match over the old style balanced and evenly spaced yagi beam designs of the past. So how could a Steppir that is physically setup for 20 meter spacing, produce a better signal when the antenna is actually adjusted to work at 10 meters?

How do the frequencies beyond, on both sides of the center frequency that the antenna spacing is initally set for, deal with this obviously compromised spacing as installed? Again I assume the Steppir is initally setup at about 20 meters in physical size, the middle of the HF region. How can you have maximum gain on all bands of operation, as you note, if the antenna is setup with fixed set spacing? It just does not make any sense to me. A 20 meter yagi antenna will have pretty wide spacing and the boom will also be very long compared to 11 meters. Again, even though you can affect the resonant length of all elements to work well at 27 mHz, how does that work out for the spacing when physically setup for 20 meters as in the Steppir?

The spacing in the Maco will necessarily have significantly closer and whatever it is is likely optomized for 11 meters specifically. How does this all work out for the Steppir to literaly destroy the Maco, as you have repeatedly noted?

At what frequency is shrouding for spacing and element length actually set at initally in the Steppir? How does this antenna work to tune 160 meters if setup at 20 meters without a tuner? Again it has to be a compromize setup at all but the inital band setup and that does not spell better, best, maximum, destroyier of all others for me, unless you can explain how it defies natural laws in this area.
 
KingCobra_CDX882 said:
Master Chief
there is no way a Maco 4 element will out perform a Steppir 4 element...
Yes sir, it can and does. Why, you ask? Because the Maco was designed specifically for the band it is operating on while the SteppIr is not. Sure, the SteppIr's elements will be resonant on any band, but the spacing is less than optimum for any band other than 20 meters. Will it work, yep! Most antennas do!

I believe the SteppIr to be more mechanically sound, expensive, impressive looking, and have the ability to switch directions in an instance. These are all fine and dandy. But, when we speak about the electrical performance between the Maco and the SteppIr, the Maco will beat it for the single reason I mentioned above!

I should add that I have had the priviledge of assembling a MonstIr by SteppIr. A very nice antenna indeed!
 
KingCobra_CDX882 said:
I bet that antenna is a talker..
to this day it is one of the better antennas out there..

only 2 antennas equal it and only 1 antenna betters it
(Jay's newer version that is actually an highly improved version)
Interceptor I-10K
Again, so we are clear, the Interceptor 10K is NOT an improved version of the Penetrator. The I-10K is a completely different antenna in both design, construction, feedpoint, and performance.

Jay's Mastadon 5000 was the improved version of the Penetrator. That antenna never made it out of the testing phase. When the M5K did not perform as desired, it was scraped and the completely different I-10K was born!

Saying the I-10K is like the Pentrator is the same as saying the Sigma IV is like the Astro Plane because they both have loops.
 
Marconi said:
Hey King, about the I-10K. I don't know of any model to this one except maybe a high output model that Jay has designed for the regular I-10K. You mention my older version as though you know that I have an older version. I don't think you could know anything about what I have.
There have been minor changes to the I-10K over the years. Most notably is the mounting bracket for the coax connector and the connection point for the capacity hat. The earlier versions of the I-10K used a 1/4-20 bolt and a hose clamp to secure the CAPHAT. The later versions have a machined slug that is swedged into the top tube and threaded to accept the 1/4-20 bolt. They all perform the same however.

When King mentioned a newer model, he was speaking about the I-10K being newer than the Penetrator; not the differences between early and late models of the I-10K.

The difference between the I-10K and the I-25K is the higher rated (and $$$) connector and bracket. The rest of the antenna is identical. Oh, and you get a neat looking plastic ring!
 
Marconi said:
I asked the following specific questions.

King, do they have steppir motors at all elements? Maybe you can fill us in on all of the details, just how this particular antenna really works. How do you know the element has extended or retracted properly. They talk about reversing the bi-directional quality in two seconds. Does this mean the antenna is a bi-directional gain antenna. The controller must be a computer interface to do all that adjusting of the ribbon type copper elements, right?
Since I've actually worked on one, let me explain:
The SteppIr is made up of heavy duty fiberglass tubes. These do NOT change size. Inside these tubes are lighter duty plastic tubes. Inside this tube, a small ribbon is moved back and forth by high quality stepper motors (hence, the name). All elements (except for the 6-meter elements on the MonstIr) have this ribbon and are adjusted by a stand-alone controller. As you change bands, each element changes it length inside the tubes per instructions by the controller. This correctly sets the electrical lengths for the reflector, driven, and directors. Because the antenna is processor controlled, it can change directions (180 degrees) in seconds by making the reflector a director and the first director a reflector. Again, the element spacing is not optimal.

Marconi said:
Since the steppir has fixed spacing, how does it deal with the optimized spacing factors that have been developed with modeling for modern yagi beams, a factor that is directly related to maximizing gain over the old style balanced and evenly spaced yagi beam designs?
It doesn't.

Marconi said:
Since yagi design for spacing is a condition that is purely relative to wavelenght and is typically in the range of 0.16-0.33 of the wavelength at the working frequency, then how does the spacing relate when working 7.10 mHz or when tuned at 55 mHz?
Its a compromise. For 6-meters, they actually add non-tuneable resonant elements between the regular tuneable elements.

Marconi said:
And, how do the frequencies beyond the center frequency that the antenna spacing is initally set for, deal with the compromise spacing as installed whatever that is. How can one fixed set spacing be for maximum gain potential on all bands? It just does not make any sense to me. A 40 meter yagi antenna will have pretty wide spacing and the boom will also be very long. How does that work out in spacing if one tunes this antenna to 50 mHz which will have significantly closer spacing?
Its a compromise on all bands other than 20-meters. But, it does work very well! The SteppIr will never replace a monoband antenna in regards to performance. It does do better than tri-band antennas which are also a compromise. You effectivley get a mono band antenna on ALL bands (including military and MARS) between 40 and 6 meters on ONE boom! This also includes CB.

Its not a perfect antenna. Firmware upgrades have been sent out to fix or tweek the performance issues of the antennas. They are still rather new so long term failures have not shown themselves yet. Factory tests of the element and motor have been EXCELLENT! Hundereds of thousand cycles have been performed without a failure!
 
Flatland Radio said:
Hygain Penetrator 500

Yeah, when it comes to 11m verticals, I have to agree.

That trusty ol' Sigma 5/8 is a good one, 'bout neck and neck with the Penetrator in performance but I still haven't found an antenna constructed as well as the Penetrator.

Now that my Penetrator 500 is modded to 6061-T6 I am confident it will withstand even the most violent midwest tornados -



...because it's in CALIFORNIA! - HAHAHAHAHA


HAHAHA


HAHA


HA


...well I thought it was funny. :eek:
 
Master Chief said:
...Saying the I-10K is like the Pentrator is the same as saying the Sigma IV is like the Astro Plane because they both have loops.

Either you cut out this crap or I'm going to beat you with one of my old Penetrator radials! :p

Now here is what I'm most interested in; testing the I-10K against the Hy-Gain Penetrator 500 Super CLR.

I couldn't help but notice the similarities between the `trombone` match on the I-10K and the ring on the Maco V5/8, it looks similar to the ring if it were to be unfolded, except for the exact size.

- Bottom of the ring/trumpet to radials/gnd,
- fed near the center at j50,
- top of ring/trumpet to radiator.

- Would I want an I-10K? - Sure, why not, - it's new!

I just have my doubts that the performance will be noticeably better than the P-500.

If it is then, - COOL!

I would also really like to see a WOLF .64 out there too, anyone bringing one?
 
Best Base Antenna

I love my Maco 5 element flatside, and my quad four for CB, and a G5RV with a tuner for ham.
 
Hey King about three weeks ago I asked you some questions about the Steppir beam antenna. I just edited my original post to the King about in hopes that it might encourage you to jump in here and answer some of my questions, if you can.

I know that another member has already attempted to answer, but since I believe you actually have one of these superior, pie in the sky beam antennas IMHO, I would like to encourage you to maybe give us a bit more of your wisdom on the advantages of the Steppir relative to my questions. Come on King, I will be fair in my remarks. I don't want to cause trouble for anyone, I am just curious about why you feel the Steppir will destroy all others and you did raise the issue didn't you.

Marconi
 
I agree with FarmBoy.

Master Chief, you know that is not what I meant at all. I don't even mind that you answered my inquiry instead of the King, but you were right when you suggested that you and I just don't communicate well. Generally we don't really disagree, you just seem to take issue with the way I say things. Well, you are not my momma. So when I see you in May, if you see me with red hair that is not me.

Your responses were fine, I just wished for the King to answer some of my questions about the antenna he touts so highly. Maybe I just want to see what he knows and how he describes what he has, if he really does own one, OK? He has not come forward yet, so frankly I don't think he wants to be questioned about his ideas. That is not very much fun in this type of setting, don't you think, or is that just the way Kings act?

The Marconi
 
hey there..

I never said i have the steppir..
I do want to get it....if i can get a tower put up somehow..

yes it is true it is likly set up with spacing for 40 meter band..
but then those multi band beams are also not universal spacing..

steppir "claims" by being able to "trim" the elements...
they over come the slight disadvantage of element spacing..
so i suppose...if one had a "momo" beam set up perfect then perhaps it would do better then the Steppir..
BUT...
would one set it up for highest gain....or for highest rejection..
with the steppir you can do both...
a step further you can have dual gain if oppisate directions..

now if...for say 11 meters...
as FarmBoy uses Signal Engineering's 8 element quad, an awesome antenna!!

i would think it may indeed do better then the steppir beam
(on 11 meters ofcourse)
i bet his quad is quieter....and if it is 8 quads then is likly a longer boom then the steppir (which is 32 or 34 feet) and it is not the elements or the amount of quads that determin gain
rather the longer boom determins more gain...

so his longer boom will win out...

but also..
he has another advantage (on 11 meters)..

although more elements do not persay equal gain..
the more elements...
the tighter/smaller the radiating point of the antenna..
this adds to higher rejection of unwanted signals
(say locals...and or making it so other stong DX is not over powering those you are trying to hear)..

where in one respect the steppir would still win is being able to tune the antenna to switch between heavier db only gain (sort of) and better rejection of those you do not want to hear..as well as ability to hear and talk in 2 oppisate directions at same time...

so the steppir is more versital..

Now...Compare Signal Engineering's 8 element quad, Steppir 4 element,Maco 4 element..

i think likly would be signal engineerings 8 element quad that would win out (also i think those quads can go from vertical to horizontal)..
then would be the Steppir 4 element Horizontal..
then Maco 4 element horizontal..

but then also..
in a contest with skip rolling from all over..
advantage might return to steppir for it's better versitility (maybe not)..

but without a doubt when you consider that the steppir can mantain a SWR or 1 to 1 swr from 7 mhz all the way to 55 mhz

you can make a play for the maco..
in that it costs far far less.. and also is easiest to install..
and that it is the smallest and can use the smallest rotor..

in all..
there are many many varying reasons to determine what is best and why...

i have a posiblity in getting a place to put up a tower for the steppir beam...
is no way i could find the room for the Signal Engineering 8 element quad..

also i would be afraid of the winters with such a big antenna like the quad..
at least with the steppir...
i can greatly reduce the foor print of the total antenna during bad weather...

Oh and i think someone asked in past..
if all the steppir elements had a motor .... yes they do...

i didnt answer every question asked for a couple of reasons..
i gave a direct link earlier....so that if one wanted..they could easily get the answers themselves...
also i am not on here as much as i would like...

as it is i talk on the radio once or so a month (lack of time)
this is why i invest in really good gear...

so when i do get the chance to talk...
you know i will get out...lol..

ahh and for who said....
i bet all King's are like that....Cute...lol..

Later all
 

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