HUAGAO SEMICONDUCTOR CO., LTD.

[StrangeBrew]

...also allows you to have a much greater voltage range if you run an adjustable regulator.

So can I take this as confirmation that an automotive alternator is capable of 50 volts with the right regulator and the stock windings? A search on youtube brought up some crazy stuff with all kinds of homemade transformers.

From your reply I take it that the rectifier is the weak link in a typical alternator.

 

[543_Dallas]

So can I take this as confirmation that an automotive alternator is capable of 50 volts with the right regulator and the stock windings? A search on youtube brought up some crazy stuff with all kinds of homemade transformers.

From your reply I take it that the rectifier is the weak link in a typical alternator.

No confirmation. At idle probably not, at high rpm maybe. If the alternator won't make the voltage use a transformer to step it up. Guys have done this to use tube amps in a mobile for years. Another method would be alternators floating above ground and charging multiple battery or cap banks that are ran in series. If I was going to that much trouble I'd use ceramic tubes.

The tiny diodes in the alternator are a weak link. Floating heatsinks in a large amp case can be drilled and tapped for heavy duty rectifier diodes.

 

[LeapFrog]

Its not unheard of to run AC to the back to a heavy duty rectifier built in a 16 pill case. If your alternator has enough balls don't even bother with batteries. A large cap bank will smooth the ripple and be less maintenance...also allows you to have a much greater voltage range if you run an adjustable regulator.

I appreciate the information it's something to consider.
Down the road when this setup is ready I would need a battery bank to be able to run it without using the vehicle, It would be more of an emergency radio system with high power, and if the fuel runs out or the engine is smothered by a natural disaster I need to be able use the radio. Key-downs serve a purpose no doubt I can see the excitement of comp-tunes and all but my focus is somewhere else on this one. It would primarily be powered directly from the battery bank, and the charging system is to get the cells back up to charge without having to run a separate generator and charge the four batteries individually.

StrangeBrew, A MotorMaul sounds like a cryptic device, can you briefly talk about what it does and how it does that?
I could see two 24v alternators each feeding a pair of batteries, and then both pairs combined to equal around 48v-56v

 

[StrangeBrew]

StrangeBrew, A MotorMaul sounds like a cryptic device, can you briefly talk about what it does and how it does that?
I could see two 24v alternators each feeding a pair of batteries, and then both pairs combined to equal around 48v-56v

Motor mauls basically let you run two batteries in parallel in order to be charged by a normal 12 volt automotive charging system, then when you key up a bunch of relays would switch in order to disconnect the batteries from the 12 volt charge source and reconfigure the batteries in series in order to provide 24 volts to the load. This 24 volts would then be cut back to whatever voltage you want to use to "volt" your amp.

As far as details on the actual workings I'm the wrong person to ask but there is info out there on the net, they're usually made by your bigger competition amp builders.

 

[StrangeBrew]

Did some googling and found this:
http://www.americanpowerinc.com/56 vdc alternators for remote power.htm

and:
http://www.americanpowerinc.com/36 and 48 VDC external voltage regulators for alternators.htm


Added on edit:

For charging a bank for base use
https://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/48-volt/

It seems there is stuff out there, you just have to figure out where to look.

 

[LeapFrog]

Did some googling and found this:
http://www.americanpowerinc.com/56 vdc alternators for remote power.htm

and:
http://www.americanpowerinc.com/36 and 48 VDC external voltage regulators for alternators.htm


Added on edit:

For charging a bank for base use
https://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/48-volt/

It seems there is stuff out there, you just have to figure out where to look.

Thank You StrangeBrew for finding those items and posting them here in the thread, definitely added some value for anyone looking into the 50 volt devices as an alternative.

 

[StrangeBrew]

Problem is none of that stuff looks cheap.

At least we know it's out there.

 

[1883gatekeeper]

A real pro.....testing.www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDrTNjIObaM

This wasn't meant to be a PRO test. This was more of a test for me to use the equipment that I am use to using daily. I am no where near a professional. I am a guy that absolutely LOVES this hobby so much that I build amps in my dreams lol.

I Bought these HG 2879s around 3 or 4 years ago and they were TERRIBLE! Quality control was laughable.

About 9 months plus ago I contacted the owner of HGsemi and begin to converse with him and sharing with him our issue with the Toshiba 2sc2879 and 2290.

He had no idea how our cultural differences were compared to his meaning the good ole 11m hobby here in the US. I explained how he could be the next big product out here if he could just work at getting his 2sc2879 as close to the Toshiba counterpart possible.

At this time he updated the bottom insulator and a few other things and shipped a few peices to me. I tested, smoked, fried and reported back to him. He kept making changes back and forth. He finally hit the nail on the coffin with these last 2 brews which we call for reference 04-4 and 08-4 which ARE DIFFERENT then the ones you can currently purchase from there website.

I am AMAZED, SHOCKED, and excited. I have 8 2x 04-4 2879s and 4 2x 08-4 2879 Two transistor units out in operation right now. One has been for 2 months every day use and so far not 1 issue.

I am very paranoid of these units so that is why i truely wanted to test with everyday regular use before i backed them up 100 percent.

Lets see how the 4x2879, 6x2879, 8, and 16 do because these are lined up for builds so only time will tell.

I was able to achieve over 300w RMS with the video that is linked to at the top and this Amp is being used everyday. So we can only hope....he is willing to work and work and work to get these as good as possible.

Yes i may need to quit using my finger nails as tools lol......it is a habit since i was 15yrs old. I strip my wires with my fingers nails.....trick i learned from back in Vietnam lol lol lol.

Now to the nice fellows that said this mudduck which i am a mudduck by the way. Biggest amp i have is a 24 pill base which i know is nothing compared to some of the big big boys but that WAS NOT my first contact to the west side lol....it was my FIRST contact to STRING BEAN which was a person that i had been trying to contact over and over and over and over since i had got into the hobby bout 1 year or so before that........ so if any of you fellows can remember back to when you first started talking skip which I understand for a lot of years before I was born since I'm only 33 years old I'm sure you can remember how exciting it was chicken bumps all over your skin this and that so if you fellows are trying to make it look as if I am this or that from being excited that much back in 2012 of making that contact that is perfectly fine but the reason that I leave this video up cuz it reminds me how fast I have come in this hobby of building amplifiers and I think I have came a long ways without having schooling or a teacher beside me teaching me and I cannot wait to see where I am at 4 more years down the line.

I will not give up that what I do I love it with an absolute passion and I love helping people and I absolutely love to see people enjoying my work but I understand seeing things and reading things would not all the information you can only judge or analyze something with what you do have which I totally understand so yes only four years ago I went absolutely nuts for making a contact to a guy that I have been trying to make a contact to me for over a year and it was absolutely exciting and I love watching that video every once in awhile that's why I am in this hobby for times like that I will feel that feeling again when I build my first amplifier with full output filtering of the for HF Spectrum when I finally make my first EME contact. some of you fellows on this posting are actually guys that I look up to and if any of you fellows don't think that I have made a good jump in the hobby for only being in this for around four years then i am sorry you feel that way. We all have to start from some where and where I am currently it is nowhere near where I am staying I have goals that make these Distortion generated monsters look like toys LOL yes I do know better but I love doing what I do until I get there......God Bless and sorry for any misspellings i am using voice to speech.

 

[LeapFrog]

This wasn't meant to be a PRO test. This was more of a test for me to use the equipment that I am use to using daily. I am no where near a professional. I am a guy that absolutely LOVES this hobby so much that I build amps in my dreams lol.

I Bought these HG 2879s around 3 or 4 years ago and they were TERRIBLE! Quality control was laughable.

About 9 months plus ago I contacted the owner of HGsemi and begin to converse with him and sharing with him our issue with the Toshiba 2sc2879 and 2290.

He had no idea how our cultural differences were compared to his meaning the good ole 11m hobby here in the US. I explained how he could be the next big product out here if he could just work at getting his 2sc2879 as close to the Toshiba counterpart possible.

At this time he updated the bottom insulator and a few other things and shipped a few peices to me. I tested, smoked, fried and reported back to him. He kept making changes back and forth. He finally hit the nail on the coffin with these last 2 brews which we call for reference 04-4 and 08-4 which ARE DIFFERENT then the ones you can currently purchase from there website.

I am AMAZED, SHOCKED, and excited. I have 8 2x 04-4 2879s and 4 2x 08-4 2879 Two transistor units out in operation right now. One has been for 2 months every day use and so far not 1 issue.

I am very paranoid of these units so that is why i truely wanted to test with everyday regular use before i backed them up 100 percent.

Lets see how the 4x2879, 6x2879, 8, and 16 do because these are lined up for builds so only time will tell.

I was able to achieve over 300w RMS with the video that is linked to at the top and this Amp is being used everyday. So we can only hope....he is willing to work and work and work to get these as good as possible.

Yes i may need to quit using my finger nails as tools lol......it is a habit since i was 15yrs old. I strip my wires with my fingers nails.....trick i learned from back in Vietnam lol lol lol.

Now to the nice fellows that said this mudduck which i am a mudduck by the way. Biggest amp i have is a 24 pill base which i know is nothing compared to some of the big big boys but that WAS NOT my first contact to the west side lol....it was my FIRST contact to STRING BEAN which was a person that i had been trying to contact over and over and over and over since i had got into the hobby bout 1 year or so before that........ so if any of you fellows can remember back to when you first started talking skip which I understand for a lot of years before I was born since I'm only 33 years old I'm sure you can remember how exciting it was chicken bumps all over your skin this and that so if you fellows are trying to make it look as if I am this or that from being excited that much back in 2012 of making that contact that is perfectly fine but the reason that I leave this video up cuz it reminds me how fast I have come in this hobby of building amplifiers and I think I have came a long ways without having schooling or a teacher beside me teaching me and I cannot wait to see where I am at 4 more years down the line.

I will not give up that what I do I love it with an absolute passion and I love helping people and I absolutely love to see people enjoying my work but I understand seeing things and reading things would not all the information you can only judge or analyze something with what you do have which I totally understand so yes only four years ago I went absolutely nuts for making a contact to a guy that I have been trying to make a contact to me for over a year and it was absolutely exciting and I love watching that video every once in awhile that's why I am in this hobby for times like that I will feel that feeling again when I build my first amplifier with full output filtering of the for HF Spectrum when I finally make my first EME contact. some of you fellows on this posting are actually guys that I look up to and if any of you fellows don't think that I have made a good jump in the hobby for only being in this for around four years then i am sorry you feel that way. We all have to start from some where and where I am currently it is nowhere near where I am staying I have goals that make these Distortion generated monsters look like toys LOL yes I do know better but I love doing what I do until I get there......God Bless and sorry for any misspellings i am using voice to speech.

You did okay GateKeeper.

BBI is a good builder also & honestly his test was only slightly more scientific than your test was. He used an Atlas DCA Pro DCA75 analyzer to test the transistor's hfe and he measured voltages, (I don't recall if he measured current draw).

Check out his comparison if you haven't seen it yet..

Your comparison was not much different, BBI showed more reflect readings though.

He (bbi) ripped open the DEI, PP100, and HG parts, surprise one is like the other!!
(Probably an early production run before they got the manufacturing process down 100%.)
(I imagine the PP100 are the predecessor to HG's)

J.M.H.O.

-Leap

 

[LeapFrog]

GateKeeper, I have seen a video on your YouTube very short one where you're in the mirror talking about Fatboy amps there is no way that you were in the Vietnam war, and to be honest you just lost some of my respect.
I don't lol about war, it is not a laughing matter.

Also how many books have you read in the last four years of your endeavour?
About as many as I have... That is a fact. We could both be doing so much better by now.

Take care GateKeeper1883, & when you build an amplifier a ham would be proud to own.. Then I will respect you.

 

[Onelasttime]

Well he had "LOL" after Vietnam he never mentioned "Vietnam War" and he said " since he was 15" and mentioned he was only 33 years old so I think it is clear he was not seriously pretending or passing himself off as a Vietnam Veteran! Let's save our hate for those truly stealing the valor of other's. On top of that you can go to Vietnam for a lot of reasons vacationing is popular their it is not the same place it was int he 1960-1970's. Some of the best silica for making optics comes out of Vietnam.

On the amp building and something an amateur would be proud to own I have known plenty since my time working in an electronic repair shop in the early 1990's through to today that use and abuse a lot of gear that was intended for CB market both tube and transistor amps. Not every amplifier built by HAM's is a work of art or thing of beauty both function wise and appearance.

In fact I know a couple of people that have designed an amp or two that are every bit Ham Radio Level of build and design and for the most part no one gives his products the time of day! Most amateur radio operators are pompous and social economic bigots and full of themselves! Most have more money than brains and buy there shack they do not build it today! This is not the 1950-1980's when the hobby was full of techno wizards.

I am ignorant nit wit just good enough with a soldering iron to get himself into trouble but that said I can out build most Ham's I have known. I have no business repairing anything but I do try and often manage a good job even if I am slow and have to ask a lot of stupid questions.

You can learn from formal training which is great if the opportunity presents itself or you can learn by trial and error and emulation. In the last 6500 years of human history trial and error combined with emulation has been the most widely used methods to advance technology and pass on skills.

On coping old designs funny how everyone wants to buy old Uniden SSB, COBRA SSB, Cypernet, AR3500's, HR2510's, Anything made by Drake, Collins,Swan, Henry, Alpha Amp's etc....all that old junk.....LOL Amazing how many people copy old tube designs some to sell and some for themselves in both RF and in Audio circles all these people are doing is coping old designs. If Gatekeeper1883 copied a SGC-500 Smart Power Cube RF amp it would still be "just a copy" according to you. If he coppied my favorite amp the JRC JRL2000F base amp it would still be "just another copy".

Leapfrog I have no issue with you at all I just think you where a bit harsh. I do not even disagree with what you said rather that you said it and that it was off topic and not called for. I do not think Gatekeeper offered up his youtube video as anything other than a " look what I did" video. It was not meant as a dissertation on the subject of bipolar transistors and if HG's where as good as Toshiba's since Toshiba no longer makes the 2SC2879 it is kind of a wasted line of thought since they are gone once the supply runs out.

LDMOS is the way to go but it is not all roses. The price, design and power both voltage and current is another level up. Have you looked at any of them from a build stand point. The current needed at 50V-100V is really high high enough to be truly dangerous in a mobile environment. Most tube amps for 12V applications did not just use a step up coil they also had a vibrator. On top of that the weight for all the copper and steel compared to the power output was crazy compared to what can be done with a 2SC2879.

LDMOS has terrible gain number's at voltages bellow 50V. They almost always need a copper spreader between the transistor and the aluminum heat sink.

I think for keydown use anything other than LDMOS is stupid at this point but for the average hobby guy that has a 1-6 transistor amp in his Camry bipolar low voltage transistors still make a lot of sense and plenty of other ones are still available for now.

I am no fan of class c biased amps or sand bar resistor biasing or the like but at least people are out their learning and doing not just buying. I think this is just a hobby for him not his day job.

It took me 3 weeks to make the time to recap a radio from start to finish. Some of us this is just a hobby.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Most amateur radio operators

You REALLY should have used the word "some" as the statement as you made it is simply false. If you find that most of them are like that when you meet them then perhaps it is YOU that presents to them in an improper manner and they are responding. Yes SOME are like you suggest but I am sure you would respond to me the same way if I said that MOST CB'ers are pompous and social economic bigots and full of themselves especially the keydown clowns.

Most have more money than brains and buy there shack they do not build it today! This is not the 1950-1980's when the hobby was full of techno wizards.

While it is true the level of tech expertise is no where near what it was in the '50's there is simply SOOO much more available to purchase to make a shack today then back then. As for saying that most hams have more money than brains, I take exception to that. A LOT of hams are in the technical fields and as such do indeed have some disposable income AND brains. It's not like they are spending their welfare money or kid's college funds to buy yet another 32 pill box.

I am ignorant nit wit just good enough with a soldering iron to get himself into trouble but that said I can out build most Ham's I have known. I have no business repairing anything but I do try and often manage a good job even if I am slow and have to ask a lot of stupid questions.

The funny thing about MOST, yes I did say MOST, of these technically inept hams have come from the ranks of 11m when the code requirement was dropped and and the tech requirements dumbed down and that is the reason so many are at a loss when it comes to repairing and building gear. It's a function of the new slack standards and not a function of anyone's intellect.

I really do hate it when things turn into a ham versus CBer thing and I hope this does not go that way however I did feel the need to address a couple of your comments.

 

[LeapFrog]

I was a little harsh in my reaction, GateKeeper if you see this one day: I apologize.

I don't have my ticket, I only talk on the citizens band.
I'm not rich & sure as heck am no better than any other hobbyist here.

(Side note & matter of fact I have 3 Cobra 29's here, simple little radios. They are all 3 out of commission until I spend the time and energy reading and "emulating" things done before I was born, to solve the problems, whatever they may be)

I agree the low voltage boxes for the guy looking to "break through" the pile up in his Camry still have a place.

LMDOS boxes just seems like the natural progression/evolution of HF (& higher) linear amplifiers.

I did not wish to drag this thread off topic, and for that I also apologize.
I don't make a dime off of radio, I enjoy it. To me it is a hobby/art/science all rolled into one.

Truly, I am still "just a newbie" in this scene with an oscilloscope on my bench, the tools don't grant me any exclusive knowledge though they just help me discover things in a round-a-bout way through trial-&-error. If that makes any sense?!

To master a craft requires years, for now I'm just glad that I'm able to set my modulation with a real instrument. [nothing special about that]

We will have to wait & see just how rugged the new HUAGAO 2SC2879 are.

It's really cool that GateKeeper is the distributor of the HG parts in the USA, circumventing the language barrier is a real accomplishment & he should be proud of his ability to do this, I never meant to bash on GateKeeper so bad, truth be told I do respect him. Especially because he does not come from a formal training background, and has cemented himself into a major role in this hobby/industry & that is an achievement in its own right.


All the best regards.
-Leap

 

[StrangeBrew]

....
LDMOS is the way to go but it is not all roses.
....

Yeah they definitely seem like the way to go for the big boys but they don't have much to offer if you're just looking for a couple hundred watts, as you said the old bipolars still have a place. Then there is also the issue of repair parts for all the 2879 amps already out there, I'm hoping these Huagao transistors work out.

 

[Onelasttime]

CaptainKillowatt you are right. My insomnia has been acting up and my post's reflect this. Sometimes I do not sleep for days and sleeping pills do not always work either. So often after many hours lying in bed and being frustrated I get up and cruise the internet for 15-20 minutes than try again. Last night was the first time I slept in 3 days and I got about 1 hour of sleep sleep divided over 8 hours. The sleeping pills that my insurance cover which is only Ambien generic does not work that well for me most of the other stuff might as well be M&M candies because they do nothing.

I have tried sleep hygiene programs, meditation, giving up caffeine for months at a time, Melatonin, Valerian Root, Hops, Kava-Kava and the list goes on...

No people are not using the alternator for that direct you would use a DC-DC step up transformer. Most people are not driving 1980's white Suburbans with twin fighting sticks on top. Yes the alternator can be modified to easily put out other voltages than 15V but durability becomes an issue as does cost and mounting ability. Gone are the days of simple V-belt and fairly generic mounting most acc underhood are cast to bolt directly to the engine block and that complicates upgrades. Even using an external regulator the guts of the alternator have a finite life cycle designed around a fairly narrow load and at narrow specifications. Heat is the enemy. Just like a transistor can only pass so many electrons between the junction before they wear out or break down and can only handle so much voltage and current the same is true of all the parts on an alternator. This is why GM and Toyota for example donot use an alternator to provide high current 110V power for welding or the like they used alt. built just for this built into the bell housing between the ending and automatic transmission that more closely resemble what you would see on a hybrid car generating high freq./high voltage than stepping it down to 110V also what you see on most commercial aircraft and on APU's and a lot of military generators.

Also most LDMOS units people build for mobil use run at 48V not 100V+ like you would do for base station use. Since ever house in America has 110/220 available it would be silly not to take advantage of that fact and design accordingly on a car trying to get to 50V safely in a package that is not a monster that is reliable is a chore because unlike tubes that where high voltage but low amperage for the most part LDMOS have the same current requirements as a Bipolar but need a minimum of 48V to have significant gain and even better to have 100V or more depending on the part.

No getting around current need though most of these guys need 30-50amps per transistor at 100V for rated output. As you lower the voltage you need more current. Do you know how hard it would be to get 60-100 amps continuous for a 2X LDMOS unit at 50V-100V out of an alternator that would bolt on to a modern car or SUV? Never going to happen at idle either. On top of that you still need to power the native 12V systems. Nope $500-$3000 in Super Caps and step up transformers is likely how keydown guys would implement this technology. Keep in mind you can make a single LDMOS device perform the same work as say 6-8 12V bipolar.

As vehicle power levels go up like on hybrids and such it becomes much easier to implement things like this. Never mind the rest of the vehicle is likely not dual fighting stick friendly or rf freindly! LOL Imagine a Toyota Prius with 20K watts of LDMOS amplifiers and a fighting stick in the center of it's roof! LOL