ssb adjusting question??

[Slowmover]

The concepts of SSB is not for fidelity, but PITCH - the monotone of your predominate tone (tonal range) of your voice.

So to throw on a single 1kHz tone versus the use of what many deem a standard, two-tone - is part of the problem. You can get many tones - but they are spaced evenly forcing you to hear a zerobeat of one what seems to be a solid tone, is the fundamental of the mixing of two others - you start to hear garbage.

Why waste your time with that?

IT is better to use your voice or even a small table radio music as the source then you can hear how the SSB section takes in, filters out and reproduces just specific tones of music your ear hears.

The key word here is - what your ears hear - and your brain perceives.

Many "tone deaf" users have the biggest problem with SSB use. I'm not saying your tone deaf, but your ears need to be "trained" if not reminded - on occasion, to listen for SPECIFIC range of frequencies the SSB radio will pass - you just have to relearn what you sound like on your radios to obtain the "pitch" that you stay with that others should be able to tune into and understand you.

IT is not my position in life to tell you what you need to do, I'm only trying to GUIDE you in what you SHOULD do in retaining yourself to hear your own voice in anothers' radio so you can then focus on being UNDERSTOOD more clearly with what that radio has to work with, than to use Hi-Fi mods or any sort of Fidelity above and beyond what radios' others use, can hear you as.

Pitch, . . See? I said it was quack or hoot.


.

 

[1iwilly]

don't be getting long-winded on me andy stay on the script so for tp-1 has to do with the pll side now what do i do with part 2 tp-3 coil L30 annd ct2

You really can't - which is why the "test tone" approach is even used, but then it is not perfect.

So then you (the owner or tech or insert favorite tinkerers here) come in to try and make it right.

That is the crux of the problem - any stock radio is at the mercy of the last tech that tuned it (OEM).

So you can't even call it "stock" because of the minor differences in the component selection changes the result of what it could be . So they drag someone in to try make it "sound right" - you have to involved the human factor - and not a lot of them seem to even understand the roles Heterodyne plays in the SSB realm; for them to even know what they really do need to sound like.

Hence your problem and what you need to do to make it right.

That's is the hardest part - what do I need to do to sound right?

Each mode has it's quirks.

LSB is easier to work with because the coils inductive effects offset the LOWER side of the channel / Frequency. (Easier to use inductance)

USB - in light of the Cobra 2000/148's use a variable CAPACITOR to offset the rise you will need to correctly set the those same effects but in a HIGHER frequency range above the channel / Frequency. (have to add/subtract capacitance - has it's own quirks and sensitivities)

So to say "I'm using TP1" - well, then you set it, then someone comes along and sez' "your off" - to what?

There's the problem - to each radio - your radio will be different - it's not your fault they are, it is just that it does happen - so you need the "Human factor" to inject their own voice or other known reference to help clear up the differences.

On top of, did you truly set the Clarifier to STEADY 8 volt constant?

Might want to make sure your 8 volts of trimming is arriving to the board from that Delta Tune pot, is STAYING the same in both RX and TX.

You think I learned this overnight? Slept on a "Book of Radio by William Orr" so answers couid float up into my head in each night?

Heck no! It took effort, applied, then retried and reapplied - to make the effort right.

You do your best to make it right - each time you tune you learn a little more for the next time to make it easier.



.

 

[Handy Andy]

You can do that...

But if you already did, was that the moment they told you - you were off?

I can't say it any simpler then you may need to tweak - and forget using 1kHz tone - not worth the effort.

Monitor on the other radio...

To set PITCH (Passband Tone)
​

Tune to hear you - resonate - on the monitor - USB you may need to tweak that CT2 cap, L30 Does LSB and AM is L31...these affect the AN612 - the Balanced Modulator - you don't get very far trying to "fix" on a frequency - by the time you do, you've gone too far.

Use your voice!

These 3 parts - in the 7.8MHz Xtal - are the ones that SET YOUR PASSBAND - too high? Your tinny... Too Low, they hear more Bass tones from your voice - BOTH modes, will send these predominate PITCH tones EVEN AT RESONANCE because you set the Treble and Bass Tonal control (Your PASSBAND) on this thing to do just that - so the 7.8MHz one kind sets the "Tone" that passes thru the AN612.

AM is easy enough.

USB and LSB you have to think in virtual - an "imaginary" frequency which centers on the Pitch of (your) Voice.
You don't and can't tune to it - because it REQUIRES your voice in which to do that very thing - you need your voice to "sound thru" and you tune - resonate, to that.

To use 1K tone is too high in pitch to be useful - you really should send your voice thru the radios passband and you hear it on the Monitor radio - you tune the pitch to meet what you sound like between the ears - resonate.

Now, I know there are TWO IF's you have to fiddle with...

Here's the other...

To Set Frequency (your Center Slot - thru Delta Tune)


These are the EASIER of the two - once you have the "tone" (your passband) set right
you fiddle with these guys and your Delta Tune - this is the PLL side.​

L50 is LSB, L23 is AM and L22 is USB - most of the time you fiddle with this set of coils - once you have the correct pitch of audio to pass thru the AN612 - this side helps you "center slot" and resonate on FREQUENCY. You might have to tweak Carrier Balance to fix this VR4 (148GTL)

Tone is set by 7.8MHz CT2 - USB, L30 - LSB and AM is L31.

Frequency is set by L50 - LSB, L22 - USB and AM is thru L23.

You do your best to make modes sound equal as possible in PITCH of tone.

Do you best to set that mess to walk with your Delta - tune (Clarifier) using the PLL side (L50, L22 and L23)

IT can never be TRULY perfect for USB and LSB filtering is different and processed differently thru the 7.8MHz filter (Inverted and non-inverted)

 

[1iwilly]

Andy no I haven't touch ct2 and l30 I'm still searching for the right frequency counter so for now I won't touch it thanks for the input and breakdown will report back when fix the correct way quack quack I go LOL

 

[1iwilly]

andy this is the freq counter i had which is perfect for my issue i got lucky and found another new in box never been use all the way in spain
B&K Precision 1827 Frequency Counter
NOS , new in the box , never used

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

andy this is the freq counter i had which is perfect for my issue i got lucky and found another new in box never been use all the way in spain
B&K Precision 1827 Frequency Counter
NOS , new in the box , never used

Looks nice, what are you going to use to calibrate it with?

 

[Handy Andy]

Awesome, but have you "tested" calibrated it to a known standard?

NOS is great, but older components and aged caps - work against the ppm accuracy the counter was originally rated for.

So I wish you the best with that, neat little unit that I'd like to have on my bench as a simple go-to tool for pretty much most of the work done around the bench.

I'd use it a lot - I just hope the age isn't affecting the performance knowing the years and many changes - that have occurred since then.
Not too many parts are around to fix that thing anymore!

I just am touching base here to see if you understood the method to the mayhem in tuning SSB radios.

There is the filters used for the AN612 - being the 10.6~10.7MHz realm - or on the 148 / 2000 they use the 7.8MHz and it's "offsets" - so no matter which IF frequency you use you have two - one side works voice and its bandpass - the other takes that signal and puts it to 27MHz - how well it does that depends on your ability to attend to details - and with that - "center slot"

There are two IF's mixed to make the 27MHz signal

- so as you work thru this.

• You'll find one set of tuning parts, affecting the TONE that passes thru, this goes thru the AN612, into that crystal filter (that grey shrink wrap) (7.8MHz)
• the other set tends to make up the 27MHz "centering" you require to make yourself "center slot" with that voice - this is where the PLL "locksteps" the signal so you get to 27MHz and you tweak the Delta - tune /Voice Lock to handle this.(PLL's 34+MHz) - which subtracts your 7.8MHz (Don't ask ... it works)
• - between the two you get that SSB signal thru to their radio - then your job is done - then it's up to them to decode it.

The 148 and 2000 are pretty cool in how they've sorted it all out but later designs are far more straightforward to accomplish the same thing with fewer parts - but hey - it's radio.​

 

[1iwilly]

yes i understand it andy the manual has a page where it shows you how to re-calibrated i'll post it when i get it been it's coming from spain give it a few weeks and i bought a second one for parts or repair they claim it won't turn on easy fix

Awesome, but have you "tested" calibrated it to a known standard?

NOS is great, but older components and aged caps - work against the ppm accuracy the counter was originally rated for.

So I wish you the best with that, neat little unit that I'd like to have on my bench as a simple go-to tool for pretty much most of the work done around the bench.

I'd use it a lot - I just hope the age isn't affecting the performance knowing the years and many changes - that have occurred since then.
Not too many parts are around to fix that thing anymore!

I just am touching base here to see if you understood the method to the mayhem in tuning SSB radios.

There is the filters used for the AN612 - being the 10.6~10.7MHz realm - or on the 148 / 2000 they use the 7.8MHz and it's "offsets" - so no matter which IF frequency you use you have two - one side works voice and its bandpass - the other takes that signal and puts it to 27MHz - how well it does that depends on your ability to attend to details - and with that - "center slot"

There are two IF's mixed to make the 27MHz signal

- so as you work thru this.

• You'll find one set of tuning parts, affecting the TONE that passes thru, this goes thru the AN612, into that crystal filter (that grey shrink wrap) (7.8MHz)
• the other set tends to make up the 27MHz "centering" you require to make yourself "center slot" with that voice - this is where the PLL "locksteps" the signal so you get to 27MHz and you tweak the Delta - tune /Voice Lock to handle this.(PLL's 34+MHz) - which subtracts your 7.8MHz (Don't ask ... it works)
• - between the two you get that SSB signal thru to their radio - then your job is done - then it's up to them to decode it.

The 148 and 2000 are pretty cool in how they've sorted it all out but later designs are far more straightforward to accomplish the same thing with fewer parts - but hey - it's radio.​

 

[Robb]

Since you need an accurate source for your 1khz tone, I have found it useful to use a digital source to synthesize this sine wave tone. SPOT ON. Which is what I always use whenever aligning any radio:

https://freesound.org/people/klangfabrik/sounds/28636/

Now, along with an accurate freq counter, this should help to do the job correctly . . .

 

[nomadradio]

It was a pretty good counter 40 years ago.

Since a commercial test lab will calibrate this kind of gadget once a year, consider that it may very well have 40 years' worth of accumulated error in it, just waiting for the calibrate trimmer inside to get cleaned, and then set for an accurate reading.

It could still be calibrated close enough. And I might win the lottery tomorrow.

73

 

[Rwb]

i set my tecsun pl 880 to the exact frequincy im wanting set right and a distance away like 20 feet. when i get a clear as possible voice i try to talk to another operator.if he says ok i shut the tecsun off n USE MY RADIO

 

[1iwilly]

this is what i've been using =https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dmitsoft.tonegenerator
with a modified hand mike plug in to my phone

Since you need an accurate source for your 1khz tone, I have found it useful to use a digital source to synthesize this sine wave tone. SPOT ON. Which is what I always use whenever aligning any radio:

https://freesound.org/people/klangfabrik/sounds/28636/

Now, along with an accurate freq counter, this should help to do the job correctly . . .

 

[guitar_199]

Ought to have him over and run a demo on DX to show him why that "narrower bandwidth" helps get the signal through. He might come back if he can understand that.

probably not related but we had a cber here in town always done am but when he decided to do ssb he complained the whole time he couldnt get the other person in right,,, went over to his house and watch him try it out,, what he was doing was trying to get the other station in as clear as a am sound,,, told him it would never happen,, he quit ssb,,,

 

[1iwilly]

when i got the radio ssb was a mess with clarifier hack was done put radio back to stock and i'm trying to make sure it's on freq my home time is almost up then back on the road we go YES ssb will never be clear as am

Ought to have him over and run a demo on DX to show him why that "narrower bandwidth" helps get the signal through. He might come back if he can understand that.

 

[1iwilly]

well I got 1 of the 2 b&k-1827 freq meter today this was $20.00 guy claim it doesn't power up I knew exactly what was the problem corrosion by batt pack easy fix well here is my reading for adjusting my SSB for tp-3 on ct-2 was a hair off on am is spot on with my new dosy counter
tp-3=lsb-7.80149 usb=7.79850