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D&A Warrior 1000 / new 10k

LoneWolf TN

Active Member
Apr 2, 2005
357
5
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I recently put up a new Interceptor 10k at the house. My SWR is almost flat with only radio on. When I turn the D&A Warrior 1000 on high the SWR goes to about 2.0 when keyed and then swings backwards to about 1.1 when I modulate. When I turn the amp on low (it's a 2 stage amp), the swr is about the same as with only the radio turned on, about a 1.1.
What would make the amp swr swing backwards with the amp on high only? I never had this problem when I had the Spectrum 1600 up just prior to erecting the 10k. Has anyone ever heard of swr swinging backwards from a 2.0 to around 1.1? What could be the problem???

LoneWolf TN
 

Uh Lonewolf, the Warrior is a bucking bronco of a linear. If it doesn't throw you now and again, something's wrong.

What you are seeing is instability inside the linear. The "SWR" you are seeing is not really 'swr' in the normal sense.

The Warrior is pumping out extra frequencies. Maybe harmonics, multiples of your channel frequency. Maybe just "oddball" frequencies. What the SWR meter is telling you is that RF at a frequency WAY off of your channel is coming out of the Warrior. It's stronger when only a carrier is coming out, and becomes weaker when you modulate. Not an unusual bad habit for that model.

The SWR meter can't tell how many different frequencies are coming out of the amplifier. It just adds the sum total of the power they represent, and shows you a reading.

Trouble is, power at frequencies AWAY from the ones the antenna is built to accept will not be "soaked up" by the antenna. If you are (inadvertently) feeding 54, or 81, or 108 MHz into the antenna, it's not tuned for those. Nearly 100% of the power at those frequencies "bounces back", and makes the reflected side of the meter read really high. RF power that is spread across multiple frequencies will fool a SWR meter. Well, fool it in the sense that your SWR ON your channel is still low, even when the meter reads high. The clue here is that it changes with the amplifier's output level. And the other clue is the model.

Taming a Warrior that wants to be unstable is a by-gum and by-gosh process, even for a an experienced tech who has done it before. There is no published "step-by-step" to be found anywhere I know to look.

Ed DuLaney's design concept was used in models that had from 4 to 16 tubes. His 'formula' for desiging them ran out of steam at 12 tubes. Worked pretty effectively with 4, 8 or 10.

But 16 tubes was pushing the envelope for his basic layout method. Four driving four driving twelve is just too much gain to cram into one cabinet. The result is that the Warrior will act crazy, more likely than not. Quite often, you'll find that the bogus "SWR" reading falls off when one of the (three) plate-tune controls is cracked just one side or the other from its peak position. Or maybe not. That's the basic sort of instability I've come to expect from that one.

It's not out of reason to find that the Warrior will behave differently with one antenna than with another. Doesn't mean that either antenna is not a good design. What you are seeing is the way different antennas behave at frequencies WELL AWAY from the 11-meter band they're DESIGNED to be used on. An amplifier that is THIS choosy about your choice of antenna is,... well... not stable.

Sorry I can't offer some more constructive advice, or specific suggestions to tame it. Removing the four-tube "predrive" stage, and feeding the drive directly to the next 4-tube stage will make it into a 12-tube Phantom, sorta. One with an oversized power supply. That's the most effective answer to this problem that I have ever found. Doesn't get an enthusiastic reception, usually. People fall crazy in love with the idea of using all sixteen tubes. Never mind that it will work better with twelve. That's the problem with falling in love. Makes you do stuff that's objectively crazy.

Umm. P.S. I tend to ignore antenna discussions. Never mind why.

73
 
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f

First off - MasterChief, it's not deja vu. Nobody had a specific answer or possible precise solution, Nomad has. But MasterChief I sure do appreciate the "help" ;) :LOL:

Nomad, I DO appreciate your input, it makes sense. So I take it, I shouldn't be too awfully concerned about the high key swr and low modulation swr backward swing. I shouldn't blow anything, right?

Appreciate the help, LoneWolf TN
 
Re: f

LoneWolf TN said:
MasterChief, it's not deja vu. Nobody had a specific answer or possible precise solution.....

I know! That's why I added that last part. The Deja-Vu part was the original questions. When I read it, I thought, I've seen this before.....or I'm loosing my mind! ;)
 
Not trying to hijack the thread but since the subject is D&A amps I do have a question:

Why does an external wattmeter deflect downward during modulation when using D&A amps? The owner's manual said it was because RF power meters are not modulation meters but when I use those same meters with other sweep tube amps there is no downward deflection. Only with the D&A.

I've always been curious about this.

We now return you to the regularly scheduled thread.
 
LOL... Guess that's what I get for not watching the dates... But seriously... Why the hell does an external wattmeter deflect downward on a D&A?
 
LOL... Guess that's what I get for not watching the dates... But seriously... Why the hell does an external wattmeter deflect downward on a D&A?

Well, since the wattmeter has no idea who manufactured the amp I'll parrot what a more enlightened member said in a similar post. If I could find the post I would just link it but I can't.

The meter reflects backwards because the amp is so dirty it's transmitting frequencies in addition to the one you input and many might be outside the meters freq. range. That's why the cheapo 70's sweep tube amps aren't worth the parts they used to build them. Someone jump in there and correct me if I misquoted.
 
. . . Or it may also be amplifying a dirty harmonic signal from the radio.
That is what overmodulated/clipped signal out of the radio will get ya, especially if the 54mhz trap circuit has also been messed with . . .
 
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