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Directional 11 meter for SSB to europe

Discussion in 'CB Antennas' started by mb91w126, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. Crawdad

    Crawdad Down in the mud invasive species

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    Huh??


     

  2. Beetle

    Beetle Sr. Member

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    The earth is a globe, not a flat surface. You need to get a Great Circle map centered on your location. Drawing a line from the center to wherever you're looking to transmit will show you the true compass bearing for that location. It's not as complex as it sounds. Google Earth can show it really quickly
     
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  3. Crawdad

    Crawdad Down in the mud invasive species

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    Your map reading instructions are wonderfully inciteful, but based on the mapping coordinates of:

    Columbus, Ohio Latitude 39* 55' 44" NORTH

    Cape Town, South Africa Latitude 33* 55' 31" SOUTH

    please explain how any part of South Africa could possibly be due East of any part of Ohio.

    (Hint: The Equator is the starting point or 0 degrees)
     
  4. BJ radionut

    BJ radionut Supporting Member and 6m addict

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    Well with the average beam pattern width at that range from Ohio being around 30+ degrees wide.
    Yes you could work South Africa looking damn near due East. Beam heading OHIO.jpg

    All the Best
    Gary
     
  5. Crawdad

    Crawdad Down in the mud invasive species

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    Unless you have a non-rotating beam, why would you? Wide beam pattern or not, S.A. is not due east of Ohio.
     
  6. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur
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    Trust me, Beetle is 100% correct. Airplanes do not fly straight lines as referenced to a map. They fly basically Great Circle routes the same as RF travels. I am located at exactly 45 degrees North. If I beam exactly 90 degrees due EAST my signal hits north-west Africa and travels pretty much straight down the heart of the continent to South Africa. Download Google Earth and see what I mean. It allows you to draw start and end points and you will see that the further the distance travelled the greater the deviation from the original heading. The very northern part of Japan is also located at 45 degrees north the same as I am. If I beam to Japan I beam 340 degrees, almost over the North Pole NOT due west. Flat maps cannot accurately represent the spherical planet unless they are Great Circle maps.
     
    Slowmover, DXman, S&W357 and 3 others like this.
  7. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur
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    The world is a sphere. Take a globe and stretch a string between any two points and you will see what we are trying to tell you.
     
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  8. Crawdad

    Crawdad Down in the mud invasive species

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    CK,

    I might be dumb, but I'm not stupid enough to debate a broadcast engineer, My mistake. Excuse the outburst.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all

    73

    BTW, I'm not an Extra Class, but I had noticed the we live on a sphere, but thanks for the update.
     
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  9. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur
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    This is why I sometimes have trouble trying to help some people. Even when all intentions are good they feel the need to respond with sarcasm. Next time I'll just point you to Google for the answers.
     
  10. M0GVZ

    M0GVZ Sr. Member

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    Go find a physical globe and get some sticky tape. Draw a straight line with the tape from where you are to South Africa. You'll see it goes directly east.

    For me here in the UK to reach the USA I have to point my beam north west. If I point it west that gets me the Caribbean and Mexico. If I want Australia I have to point it north east even though on a flat map of the world Australia is south east.

    Your problem is you're applying 2D thinking to a 3D shape and that doesn't work.
     
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  11. BJ radionut

    BJ radionut Supporting Member and 6m addict

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    Beam heading OHIO_LI.jpg

    mox-2.gif

    Let's further examine the topic.
    The diagram of headings from near Columbus, OH shows South Africa heading from approx. 94 degs thru 112 degs.
    The second diagram is the radiation pattern of a Horizontal Moxon tuned for 10 meters. This will be the same pattern as the antenna you were modeling to install in another thread.
    Thus looking and comparing the information we see, the Moxon' s pattern to be almost 60 degrees wide(30 degs either side of center) with almost negligible power drop off from maximum gain.
    Thus, continuing we see that this put's the entire South African country in the pattern pointed due East from Ohio.
    Thus we see you might gain 1.5 dbd at best by rotating the antenna to reach the far Western section of South Africa. (112 degs ESE)
    This will never be noticed on their end, regardless of conditions.
    When I work Africa from near Indianapolis, I look pretty much at 100 degs. This works well into Cape Verde, Madeira Islands, Malawi etc. all which fall into that pattern.
    I have a 6 element WIDE space beam on 6 meters(25 Ft. boom =1.35 wavelength long) @ 2.4 wavelengths above ground having a much tighter pattern than the conventional beam for 11 meters, unless your talking a 6 element Long John in the horizontal position at over 2.4 wavelengths above ground height.
    (at 11 meters that would equate to close to a 47 Ft. boom at 80+ ft.)
    Again my 2 cent's worth
    All the Best
    Gary
     
  12. 1KT001

    1KT001 New Member

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    [QUOTE = "BJ radionut, post: 751197, member: 7026"] [ATTACH = full] 42122 [/ ATTACH]

    [ATTACH = full] 42123 [/ ATTACH]

    Esaminiamo ulteriormente l'argomento.
    Il diagramma delle intestazioni da vicino a Columbus, OH mostra la direzione del Sud Africa da ca. Da 94 gradi a 112 gradi.
    Il secondo diagramma è il diagramma di radiazione di un Moxon orizzontale sintonizzato per 10 metri. Questo sarà lo stesso modello dell'antenna che stavi modellando per installare in un altro thread.
    Così guardando e confrontando le informazioni che vediamo, il modello di Moxon è largo quasi 60 gradi (30 gradi su entrambi i lati del centro) con una caduta di potenza quasi trascurabile dal guadagno massimo.
    Quindi, continuando, vediamo che questo ha messo l'intero paese sudafricano nello schema puntato verso est dall'Ohio.
    Quindi vediamo che potresti guadagnare 1.5 dbd nella migliore delle ipotesi ruotando l'antenna per raggiungere la parte occidentale del Sud Africa. (112 gradi ESE)
    Questo non verrà mai notato da parte loro, indipendentemente dalle condizioni.
    Quando lavoro in Africa da vicino a Indianapolis, guardo più o meno a 100 gradi. Questo funziona bene in Capo Verde, Isole Madeira, Malawi ecc. Tutti che rientrano in questo schema.
    Ho un raggio spaziale WIDE a 6 elementi su 6 metri (braccio da 25 piedi = lunghezza d'onda di 1,35) @ lunghezze d'onda di 2,4 dal suolo con uno schema molto più stretto rispetto al raggio convenzionale per 11 metri, a meno che tu non stia parlando di un Long John a 6 elementi in orizzontale posizione a più di 2,4 lunghezze d'onda sopra l'altezza del suolo.
    (a 11 metri ciò equivarrebbe a quasi un boom di 47 piedi a 80+ piedi.)
    Ancora una volta il mio valore di 2 centesimi
    Ti auguro il meglio
    Gary [/ QUOTE]


    Long John a 6 elementi

    Questa antenna era un mito....esiste qualche foto?

    Da chi era costruita?
     
  13. Shadetree Mechanic

    Shadetree Mechanic 808 On The North Side of Dover

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    Ho utilizzato Google Traduttore.
    I used Google translate.

    From 1KT001:
    (Quote from BJ)
    Let's explore the topic further.
    The near Columbus, OH header diagram shows the direction of South Africa from approx. 94 degrees to 112 degrees.
    The second diagram is the radiation pattern of a horizontal Moxon tuned for 10 meters. This will be the same antenna model you were modeling to install in another thread.
    So looking at and comparing the information we see, the Moxon model is nearly 60 degrees wide (30 degrees on either side of the center) with almost negligible power drop from maximum gain.
    So continuing, we see that this has put the entire South African country in the pattern pointing east from Ohio.
    So we see that you could earn 1.5 dbd at best by rotating the antenna to reach the western part of South Africa. (112 degrees ESE)
    This will never be noticed by them, regardless of the conditions.
    When I work in Africa up close to Indianapolis, I look at roughly 100 degrees. This works well in Cape Verde, Madeira Islands, Malawi etc. All of which fit into this pattern.
    I have 6 element WIDE spatial beam over 6 meters (25 foot arm = 1.35 wavelength) @ 2.4 wavelengths from the ground with a much tighter pattern than conventional radius for 11 meters , unless you are talking about a 6-element Long John horizontally positioned more than 2.4 wavelengths above ground height.
    (At 11 meters this would be equivalent to almost a 47-foot boom at 80+ feet.)
    Again my 2 cents worth
    I wish you the best
    Gary [/ QUOTE]


    Long John with 6 elements

    This antenna was a myth .... are there any photos?

    Who was it built by?
     
  14. Captain Kilowatt

    Captain Kilowatt Professional Amateur
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  15. BJ radionut

    BJ radionut Supporting Member and 6m addict

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    Only a myth if you can't build your own antennas:whistle::ROFLMAO:
     

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