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HANGING A DIPOLE VERTICALLY

I run an A99 at ~25 to the feed point. I have not had any TVI issues at ~120 watts.

I built a horizontal dipole out of 2x108 inch whips this AM. I mounted it at ~20 feet (I wanted it a little lower but the droopy nature meant it would hit the roof). It's 100% isolated from the mast. The A99 had a slightly better receive overall.

Interestingly, and possibly relevant is that my - under power - SWR dropped from 1.7 to 1.5. It would seem there is some interaction taking place and may be impacting the dipole. At 10 feet, far away from the A99 the receive on the dipole was almost as good and the noise floor was lower.

Long story short, despite all the back and forth, the A99 works well for me and my setup. It's simple and effective. I needed a stealthy setup as well (security reasons) which is why the dipole will probably come back down tomorrow and I will use it at another location.
 
HOLLY SHET! IM LEARNING! I THINK.

Ok. What your saying is the feed of the 99 is as most all omni directional antenna is located at the lowest point of the antenna. Now since this feed acts as a radial point, it being closer to the ground (earth) that may tend to cause rfi. If your feed point is installed on a long mast 30-40ft and installed on you roof which on an average singal size home (maybe ad another 20-25ft, makeing the feed from 40-50 ft or more off the ground. Which would do a better job of isolating the people who live next to you from rfi. As opposed to a 99 thats feed is maybe only about 20 ft off the ground. Which is where mine would be if I were to purchase and install one. I'm gonna go with the vertical dipole for now. It's an easyer install for me compared to the99. After I string it and use it I will post my comparisons compared to the inverted V. It the same dipole I will be using and am very interested in noting the swr transmitt recive and any other differences as compared to the In V. That skeleton looks interesting but it's not for me. The fact that I used black electrical tape to wrap the white pvc feed line center really blends well into the trees and leaves where I have installed it. In 3 month's no one has complained. This may also be do to the fact I won't key up until 12am and only ask on friday or saterday for about two hours. So far so good. Thanks to all. Great learning this. Feel like a kid again when I got my first W/T. A Lafayette. 1970 I was six my brother eight. We would walk the hood until we got close enough for someone to hear us. At night we would open the window of our second story apt building and stick the antenna out the window. When we made a contact we would have to ask the person atleast three times if it was us he or she was talking too. What a magical time. We might as well been talking to someone on an apollo ship circleing the earth. I'm sure many of you remember that feeling. Thanks again for the help.
 
If your going with a vertical dipole, why not investigate the T2LT tuned transmission line trap antenna, can be hung to a tall tree or fitted to a 10m non conductive telescopic mast, its basically a coaxial made dipole equivalent to a Shakespeare big stick but using an rf choke to set length of bottom radiator of the dipole,

or you could also consider it a 1/2 wave version of the Sirio Gainmaster, principle is the same anyway just the Gainmaster was better executed than the Big Stik and was 5/8 wave as opposed to 1/2 wave. Think of the T2LT as what the Big Stick should have been.

I read many things about it online,some true some false, i know some of the guys here have had great results with them compared to either silver rods with lossy coils or A99 with very lossy coil system, some say because it takes use of the skin effect of coax, coax to RF is a 3 conductor cable not 2 when common mode current is present, which it almost definately will be to some extent if your feeding a balanced antenna with an unbalanced feed like coax,you have the obvious centre conductor and the inside skin of the braid for RF to travel on, this antenna takes advantage of the fact RF only penetrates microns into the copper, this means you don't have to fold braid back over the sheath as the RF will naturally flow over bare end of braid and onto braid outer surface when it reaches the point where you bare the sheath and braid and leave inner conductor and dielectric as top radiator.

i read (from a random amateurs page) you don't need to take account of cables velocity factor as it is no longer coaxial after feed point, that is pure bollocks, true it isn't coaxial anymore but all conductors in a dielectric have a velocity factor, won't be .66 or 66% like rg58/rg213/u that antenna and feed are made from, but will be around .97 or 97% - .98 or 98% that is commonly found on all antennas, bare in mind air is also a dielectric so will be about .98 if bare copper in air and about .97 if left in dielectric, even aluminium/aluminum for you US guys, lol, antennas have this trait too, not to mention being deliberately left short to add capacitive reactance so a coil of equal inductance can be added at base to cancel out the capacitive reactance and also provide a 50 ohm tapping point as an end fed 1/2 wave or 5/8 wave has an end impedance in thousands of ohms, base of coil is grounded at o ohms, so in between at some part of coil lies a 50 ohm tapping point. Trying to make a full length 5/8 or 1/2 wave radiator is folly as the dielectric constant of air will always have it slightly shorter anyway.

if you put up a measured 1/2 wave or 1/4 wave or any other wave antenna, bare or coated conductor at full size without figuring in this tiny velocity factor, i guarantee it won't be resonant on the frequency you cut it for as it will be slightly too long and have inductive reactance at that frequency, your mfj 259 or swr meter might not be accurate enough to show it, but it is there, trust me. Anyone that knows anything about antennas will verify that, a high quality vector network analyser will probably show, it but cheap off the shelf stuff may not.

the section above the feedpoint which is central (as in the big stick which has coax running up inside the lower metal tubing) and is not end fed like many people believe because they attach the coax there, should be exactly the same length as the part between rf choke and feedpoint.

its always best to make the antenna slightly longer than required on both the section above rf choke and the bit above where you cut braid and shield away, as it will allow for trimming to resonance, you would trim both parts equally in small increments getting smaller the closer you get to resonance as if you don't you will easily pass by resonance and go from inductive reactance to capacitive reactance, you can use a capacitor in parallel with shield across the choke to make it perfect 50 ohms, but its hardly worth introducing more points that water, your biggest enemy can enter as dipoles have a nominal 72 ohm impedance in free space which is just under 1.5:1 vswr, but its not essential as most radios will tolerate up to 3.0:1 vswr easily, you will also find in the real world that nominal 72 ohm impedance is rarely achieved so its likely your vswr will be slightly less anyway, could be slightly more too, no biggie to modern PA stages.

the RF Choke, ugly balun, call it what you want, dimensions are critical, for rg58/rg213/u about 5 turns 4.25" in diameter offers optimum choking impedance at 27 mhz, other cables will differ slightly depending on what their velocity factor is. trial and error or an mfj 259 or similar with the centre conductor left unconnected and 2 ends of the braid that is to form the choke connected one to meters inner conductor and one to outer/shield connector will give you optimum impedance reading for any type of coax as you change turns and diameters till you find the highest impedance you can, once you find that optimum impedance you will find after the choke, common mode current is so small will be nigh on immeasureable leaving your unbalanced coax almost a perfectly balanced feedline which wont radiate due to cancellation. (i'll wait for the flak on that one, lol).

at the end of the day you'll be left with an antenna that due to being air or non conductive mast mounted will be isolated/decoupled from feedline, have less tvi/rfi/noise pick up and a truer radiation pattern, for the price of a pl259/83-1sp some coax and either a bit of string or other non conductive material to haul it up a tree, or the cost of a 10m fibreglass non conductive mast, which can in turn be mounted to a much longer conductive mast to give height, as the antenna finishes 4m or so from bottom of mast its not going to affect it or choke which can be taped to the non conductive mast or left hanging, take a catapault and some nylon or braided rope to hoist it, attached to a lead weight and fire it over the highest branch you can (or if your as daft as i was in my youth climb the fucking tree) and you have an ideal antenna for portable/discreet homebase operations.

Will work horizontal or inverted v too as its just like any other dipole, but better, all thats left is to weatherproof exposed copper with self amalgamating tape or Starbright electrical insulating paint or both and jobs a good one.

i've told you how to do choke, for antenna dimensions, you'll find 300 divided by centre frequency, (27.205 for US band,27 for 26-28 mhz coverage or for coverage between mid and high band where most dx is done and uk40 and us 40 lie about 27.5 is ideal) you then multiply that by .97 and divide by 4 for each 1/4 wave radiator to get your answer in metres, you want feet multiply that by 3.28 and if you want inches multiply the feet answer by 12, its that simple.

300 / 27.205 x .97 (as you'll most likely leave dielectric on to waterproof) / 4 =

300 / 27.205 = 11.02m x .97 = 10.70m / 4 = 2.67m x 3.28 = 8.77 feet x 12 = 105.25 or 105 and 1/4 inches, figures rounded up or down to 2 decimal places for simplicity.

which is why all those 102" mobile whips you guys buy are so hard to swr without adding a shock absorber coil that has braid running inside it (which shorts the coil) and increases the radiator length by about roughly 3 or 4 inches to roughly exactly what it should be give or take an inch. buy a 2 piece 108 inch whip and you won't need a coil and its tuneable without cutting. (y) fucking hard putting back when you cut off too much, cutting is a LAST resort, as its more likely a poor ground plane/counterpoise making it hard to swr or poor soldering on coax than the whip.

will work well on any frequency using that formula.

or you could alternatively do my world infamous A99 mod, i fucking love that one, (one for you Carmen ;) , i know how much you love it too lmao) :
 

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OK JAZZSINGER.

So what your saying is 62.5% of the stitman rod should enter the coil point at 22 degree's left of the ripatola diggaration as to polarize the afcomista. In effect corjenting the ditclemin at 1.3999% conjunctionuation to the flaming grimus. After deducing the Blake theories I think I concur. After doing everything you advised, I'm sad to report that I've lost two fingers on my left hand one on my right and have a two ft 1/4 inch rode jetting out of my left nut sack. Thanks for nothing!
 
So what your saying is 62.5% of the stitman rod should enter the coil point at 22 degree's left of the ripatola diggaration as to polarize the afcomista. In effect corjenting the ditclemin at 1.3999% conjunctionuation to the flaming grimus. After deducing the Blake theories I think I concur. After doing everything you advised, I'm sad to report that I've lost two fingers on my left hand one on my right and have a two ft 1/4 inch rode jetting out of my left nut sack. Thanks for nothing!
Read what Jazzsinger wrote and digest parts of it at a time, google is your friend.

Hey Jazzsinger, how about using that coaxial choke 1/4 wave down the feedline from the feedpoint?
 
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So what your saying is 62.5% of the stitman rod should enter the coil point at 22 degree's left of the ripatola diggaration as to polarize the afcomista. In effect corjenting the ditclemin at 1.3999% conjunctionuation to the flaming grimus. After deducing the Blake theories I think I concur. After doing everything you advised, I'm sad to report that I've lost two fingers on my left hand one on my right and have a two ft 1/4 inch rode jetting out of my left nut sack. Thanks for nothing!


Thanks for nothing? There was plenty of info in Jazz's post. You should never criticize someone for something YOU do not understand. Like 359 said, take it one piece at a time and let it sink in.
 
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So what your saying is 62.5% of the stitman rod should enter the coil point at 22 degree's left of the ripatola diggaration as to polarize the afcomista. In effect corjenting the ditclemin at 1.3999% conjunctionuation to the flaming grimus. After deducing the Blake theories I think I concur. After doing everything you advised, I'm sad to report that I've lost two fingers on my left hand one on my right and have a two ft 1/4 inch rode jetting out of my left nut sack. Thanks for nothing!

Next time hold back your sarcasm and realize someone who knows what their talking about just invested the time to explain many things to you. While that may not have been obvious to you, it's obvious to me you would have gotten further with a response as simple as this: "Could you explain that in layman's terms now?"
 
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Mock away Stellasarat, if you want it simplified here it is, go buy the biggest fucking burner you can find cause with your knowledge unless you live on top of a mountain that's the only way you'll ever work 50 miles.I tried to help you and you show your ignorance in abundance and try to mock me, only person people are laughing at is you my friend, you stick to working 50 miles, and I'll stick to what I do best, battering 30+ signals into North and South America, S.africa and Australia, Canada to anywhere in Europe,

Who's laughing now asshole?
 
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Read what Jazzsinger wrote and digest parts of it at a time, google is your friend.

Hey Jazzsinger, how about using that coaxial choke 1/4 wave down the feedline from the feedpoint?

Hi 359,
The choke is 1/4 wave from feedpoint,

T2LT and Big Stick are centre fed Dipoles,as well as setting the bottom 1/4 wave radiator, it also chokes/reduces common mode current on the shields outer skin past the choke on the radio side, Gainmaster uses the exact same method but is a 5/8 wave centre fed dipole.

Although it uses shield outer as a radiator, shield inner is nigh on a balanced feed, albeit not exactly perfect like twin feeder would be and a balanced radio output would give, but pretty damn close. ;)

Jazz 73
 
Isn't the Big Stick a 1/2 wave end fed?

Cap and coil at the base for the impedance match; doesn't that qualify as a EFHW?

So I will digress . . .

36678d1333497111-old-big-stick-dissection-study-20120403_10.jpg
 
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You could be right Robb,

I should have said original Big Stick, as enything over 6" in the last 20 or 30 years Shakespeare have called big stick (maybe the owner has penile issues or something,lol), I'm pretty sure the original was nothing more than a basic centre fed sleeve dipole, later models may well be end fed, either way they weren't that great and like A99's and similar non choked/isolated antennas were notorious for causing tvi so I avoided them like the plague,I didn't know much about common mode current or chokes back then.

preferring the mighty magnum 3 and 3 element beam below approch. I did use an Avanti Sigma 4 before that but it developed a gamma match problem, it had both seized and broke free of the coax plug, so I took it off and took it indoors to repair it and left rest of the antenna in a wooden shed where it got stolen, after the police liberated it from its new home, yeah the idiot that stole it tried to use it without the gamma match, which made it instantly recognisable, wasn't many about in those days so didn't take them more than 24 hours to find it,

it also had other modifications I had done using mecccano set to strengthen the basket loop connection that helped to I.D it , yep a kids toy was stronger than Avanti's original method, after court case police returned it but as I had put the beam up under the Magnum whilst my mum and dad were out shopping and added a 10 ft pole and rotator to the 6-8ft one that was already on the chimney they weren't best pleased, to put it mildly,so I thought substituting the magnum for a 10 ft longer sigma 4 wasn't the best idea, especially in light of the tanking I got from my dad for putting the beam up, I was only 14/15 but didn't give a fuck and wouldn't take it down and he didn't have the bottle to run about roofs like I did,

so it stayed for years, I ended up selling the avanti to a good friend who wanted it for his g/f so they both had them, as he offered cash I couldn't refuse to talk me into it, it had to go, reluctantly, wasn't as if I needed it as I could make the trip to 68 div every night in early hours on UKFM to a lighthouse keeper in Co.Antrim on the magnum and a couple of hundred watts easily, but had to wait till local qrm died down as Glasgow had thousands of breakers in those days, even my Cobra 148 GTL DX struggled with front end overload to a degree as I had at least 20 people with big antennas running power within a square mile of me, maybe more, any other radio just wasn't worth using.
 
Mock away Stellasarat, if you want it simplified here it is, go buy the biggest fucking burner you can find cause with your knowledge unless you live on top of a mountain that's the only way you'll ever work 50 miles.I tried to help you and you show your ignorance in abundance and try to mock me, only person people are laughing at is you my friend, you stick to working 50 miles, and I'll stick to what I do best, battering 30+ signals into North and South America, S.africa and Australia, Canada to anywhere in Europe,

Who's laughing now asshole?

(y)

I was thinking the same but didn't want an enforced holiday for posting it.
 
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(y)

I was thinking the same but didn't want an enforced holiday for posting it.

I just say whit ah think, bans are an occupational hazaard to me Conor, still only 4 by the way, lol ;) You try to help somebody and they try to rip the pish out you, not much else you can do but tell the truth.

My trouble is I just don't give a fuck, I'd rather be hung for being honest and speaking my mind than not say anything, some things need to be said irrespective of any possible consequences, and on here the moderation/admin team appreciate that more than most forums, that's how so many bullshitters get rumbled here and don't reappear, nothing hurts more than the truth ;) and honesty is always respected.
 
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So what your saying is 62.5% of the stitman rod should enter the coil point at 22 degree's left of the ripatola diggaration as to polarize the afcomista. In effect corjenting the ditclemin at 1.3999% conjunctionuation to the flaming grimus. After deducing the Blake theories I think I concur. After doing everything you advised, I'm sad to report that I've lost two fingers on my left hand one on my right and have a two ft 1/4 inch rode jetting out of my left nut sack. Thanks for nothing!

Now this was funny. Lighten up people.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
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