No, I'm comparing the vertical polarization of my 5 element quad to the horizontal polarization of my 5 element quad. I disagree with your statement that a vertical will have a better DX distance when it might have a different angle than horizontal but when the horizontal angle is the correct angle the vertical may not be. I'm also not convinced that a vertical approach of the F layer isn't lossy compared to a horizontal approach. My experience has found horizontal superior, especially for breaking pileups. Nor am I in agreement regarding ground gain. I HAVE found it interesting how often I'm heard over pileups on my first call and over the rest, perhaps there are many others operating vertically?