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I have a spring question

Discussion in 'CB Antennas' started by Rwb, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Rwb

    Rwb Active Member

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    I looked,didnt seevexactly what im looking for.
    I have a browning coil antenna mounted to the grab handle in middle back of my sleeperbon my big truck.swr is 1.1 to 1 but it dont get out well because coil is about 2.5 feet under roof line.
    I got a 4 ft wilson top load antenna.i mounted it on my passenger side mirror to set swr which came down nice too.
    Now if i put the wilson where the browning is im forced to use a spring.im not fond of springs but i load grain and feed ingredients and the spouts and augers must be centered .some just clear my roof by 10 inches.
    I dont trust the flimsy braid straps in springs so i but heavy braided ground straps at automotive stores n put them on both ends of the spring.
    If i use a heavy 4 inch spring is it going to put my swr so high i cant adjust or trim enough to be reasonable?
    Wish i could avoid a spring but the top load should help me get out lot better than the browning with coil low under roof line


     

  2. Rwb

    Rwb Active Member

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    52 views not 1 reply humm
     
  3. jessejamesdallas

    jessejamesdallas Sr. Member

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    If you add a spring, your going to end up having to re-tune the antenna...If your just not getting herd like you want...Buy a Amplifier... or a radio with one built-in...
     
    Rwb and undertaker like this.
  4. Rwb

    Rwb Active Member

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    Cant use amplifier.get me fired. Idont like springs but to keep antenna alive its spring or not as good coverage
     
  5. Handy Andy

    Handy Andy Do Your Research First, Then Decide...

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    Not to be rude, but when running a big truck, each truck model, brand and make let alone the year, can have different mirror and mounting setups...

    So you're asking us to "guess" and then get shot down...It's easier to wait in the bushes for a glimmer, glint, small flash - or even a photo of the install so then you'd get a lot more responses because we'd have a better understanding of what you're up against and how you wish to have it done.

    This a an extension bracket called Outback - mounts on the Oh Shoot! handle behind the cab by the tanks...
    OutbackAntenna.JPG

    Are you going to mount it using that?

    Not everyone drives an 18 wheeler - nor a short box - everyday. I drove Internationals and Freightshakers - so I know what you'd be up against but even thru late model years - they made several changes to the cowlings, flares, fenders and mirrors for dress, show and general generic rentals.

    So to offer you advice, we'd would need a little more - only you can take that ball and run with it.
    Outback antenna mounting locations.png

    Now this guy I helped - needed a special bracket mounted behind the flares. But since we didn't know what else he had, I had to produce the above to cover my butt trying to explain clearance issues.

    Now with your Spring - You say 4" - if I see a 4" spring, it's not the ones I see at the Truck stops which are more like 6" and come in medium duty and heavy duty.

    Both types use a braid embedded within.

    Now if you ran a 5' Hot-Rod - it's a bit tall but can handle a 6" med duty spring due to wind load. A Heavy Duty spring I highly recommend for any type of antenna but as you said, you have clearance issues so I need to see what you're up against - because a 4" does not have a lot of tensile strength nor can it handle even a 4' firestick top load. It'll blow back and bend the coil too easily while driving.

    Again if you hav a simple Stainless Steel whip and Center load that is less than 1" in diameter - you can use any spring you wish - but you threw a lot of variables you deal with in grainers, dealing with top loaders and bottom feeds or flat bottoms with pups. in there so I'll let you look this message over and choose the route you wish to take.

    I'm gonna need some help from you to know what to offer to narrow down not only the choices but how did you stick it all together without making it fall apart?

    :+> Andy <+:
     
  6. Rwb

    Rwb Active Member

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    1993 t600 kw standup sleeper.it has a slide bar across the back of sleeper 32 inches below roofline no faring above roof.i currently have my browning coil mounted there in center but as we know coil under roofline restricts range and directional too.i can go 6 inch spring .i know top loads do better but obstacles damage them with no give.i load maybe 5 times a day n every time i bump the antenna sometimes twice per load ,pull in back out.hope that sheds more light on subject FB_IMG_1518998097196.jpg
     
    Shadetree Mechanic likes this.
  7. Rwb

    Rwb Active Member

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    The photo is old its when i had the browning on the mirror.its now in back middle n the wilson top load is on the mirror
     
  8. Rwb

    Rwb Active Member

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    The mount im using is a mirror mount for tube mirror arms,L shape bracket with a 2 way 4 bolt clamp
     
  9. Handy Andy

    Handy Andy Do Your Research First, Then Decide...

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    Hmm. I know this may hurt to hear, but sometimes the most expensive part of any truck is the antenna - because you have to replace them every time you leave a terminal, ATM - or deliver thru any low overhang...it's worse than fuel - you get scraped both ways, at the pump and inside at the counter...

    SIGH...

    Thanks for sharing that photo - it definitely helps...

    You're doing fine - it's the best with what you have to work with and that's because of problems from more of an external (companies around you) issue.

    What you have is the ideal location, just not survivable - and yes loading location of the antenna makes the biggest difference between a dummy load versus a real antenna.

    Ok, do we have options on what kind of antenna - or are we kinda sorta' stuck with the Browning?

    Outback bar? Forget it, it doesn't fit your needs...IT might but there are reasons against it right now mostly due to clearance...

    Because you'd have to "adjust" height by raising and lowering the bar - so that Outback style may provide some relief - but then its really close clearance and tight spacing and if you haul heavy - you have to SLIDE your tandems as well as your hitch to make this road worthy - so that makes the front side (the rear of the cab) a clearance issue.

    You have a good setup now, just sorry that the Browning is the one you GO-TO for the radio ... that's what makes this a hard effort And anyone whom has had a truck life like I did being a company boy / Gopher - you worked with what you had, which in most cases wasn't much.

    It's like living in a dinghy and being parked in a trucks stop next to ocean liners...one cruises the highway - while the other bobs along with the waves...you had fewer options but you did make it work. You're dealing with a Cadillac and that can get costly when repairs have to be made...

    Ok, here's (after doing the dishes) what I've come up with, I'm going to leave this with you because to make this work, the choices are up to you...

    You may already know these things in this list, but I can't proceed without knowing what you can do or are willing to change - because right now at this moment - you're already at the ideal settings you can do and make it survivable.

    One - Weight:
    The lighter the antenna - the better off you are in an install on a single hole - like roofs. The mass of the antenna affects how much torque the whipping action will place on the mount - and the material around it.

    Two - Wind Loading:
    Ok, got a light antenna(s) - but if they are long - they catch a lot of wind. This adds in another type of force like torque but I call it shear - against the mount - and material around it.

    Three - Antenna Load height:
    We already know that height matters as well as placement for image and directionality - so higher the better but 13' 6" is pretty much the norm I have to work with and think about...so if Top load is possible - use it, but how far up? Again, 13' 6" is standard.
    This doesn't always work for loading grains and weighing - they don't care what you use - they just want you to haul it - so again something to think about in regards to quality versus quantity - because you're going to go thru stuff faster due to their unwillingness to provide clearance - you may not have much of a choice but to keep it cheap when you deal with these farms.
    A SECONDARY effect to Load height - goes to the First one - Weight. Top loads are top heavy - affecting balance which requires two things - good mounting practice and proper heavy duty spring / shock mount to handle the torque from that unbalanced antenna load whipping around up top after you hit something - damping using heavy springs and thicker mounts and bracket scenarios help with reducing torque effects.

    Four - Antenna location:
    Although Cowl mounts provide the best overall image and omnidirectionality - they are not the most durable nor voted Most Likely To Succeed - Succeed? Yes, but at making a mess out of your truck and roof. You may be stuck using the Mirror mounts for the longer CB antennas and use the upper cowl/roof mounts for scanner, satellite or Bluetooth communications.

    So if you're looking for someone to agree I do, but unless you're willing to invest more into reinforcing the rooflines antenna mount - you will have to suffer a lower level of performance when it comes to granaries' that are archaic and haven't upgraded since the Wagon Wheel got replaced with Radial tires...

    You have two things against you, rear panel flaring fariing clearance (rear of cab to front of trailer) and height clearance from the loading docks that don't care what you own - just haul it.

    Otherwise you have everything else figured out - it's just complex because of the needs of the few that outweigh the abilities of the many that don't have to deal with the stuff you have to.

    If by chance, you come across someone that has a good setup - like you want - grab a photo and share it here so we can help you put together something better like what you see others are doing.

    :+> Andy <+:
     
    #9 Handy Andy, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  10. Rwb

    Rwb Active Member

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    If i can keep the top below 8 inches im ok.now im going to modify a mirror bracket.using some flat plate same width as mirror bracket im boring holes for the clamp part and 4 holes lower to bolt the L part to the end of the plate ,making length from clamp to L bracket so it drops down enough to put the 4 ft stick above roofline 8 inches n wont need a spring.did some thinking and called a friend who loads where i do.he is wanting the same idea.lucily he measured our lowest load point n its 9 inch clearence.his truck is almost identical to mine
     
  11. Shadetree Mechanic

    Shadetree Mechanic 808 On The North Side of Dover

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    How about something that you could tilt over like the Sirio 5000 mounted to the drivers mirror? That way when you pull up to get a load, you can reach out the window and put it down. The sirio that has this is not a top load but maybe something similar can be used. Or maybe if it is up high enough then you don't need a top load. This way you can have it tall and not break it.
    Chris
     
  12. Rwb

    Rwb Active Member

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    That browning is up high now on back of sleeper but coil is about 25 inches below roofline .sirio was a thought but coil is still way down.right now the wilson is on the mirror.it is just even with roofline and mounted there it outtalks the browning ,so if its in middle in back no doubt it will reach out lot better.when i had my own truck,that browning was up high on mirror.made diffrent n i could talk far in any direction.but the last 2 inces of coil was above roofline
     
  13. Handy Andy

    Handy Andy Do Your Research First, Then Decide...

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    Well, at least we got a conversation going on this.

    Ok, the cowl mount is what is scaring me. One wrong overhang and you've got some serious damage and a loss of either cab, antenna or both.

    I've seen kids (new recruits) get shown the door because they crinkled a fairing when the overbacked the trailer into a hairpin - so that cowl mount, although nice, with get a lot of the forces we just talked about earlier. I'd like to think we have something off the back of the cab like those Oh-Shoot grab handle bars - if they go high enough and don't present a tight turn or clearance issue - we may have something.

    You got a link to a pic of that browning? I need dimensions - because you want ultimate performance and ideal location - The problem is, you can only pick one.

    Unless you are wiling to manufacture a bracket/bar - much like a headache rack pickups use, and place the antenna on that horizontal bar and using the inside clearance depth (that space between the bar and the cab - that depth distance to make the bar clear the rise of the cab...To help - raise the browning Sirio antenna using the Oh Shoot bars as the vertical rise to raise and lower that antenna for clearance - or ideal height - or use this adjustable method for mounting a different antenna or even multiple antenna array.

    The only thing is do you use Oh Shoot bars so you can make the bracket/slider work for height adjustments?

    (See my photo montage above for rear of the cab mounting)

    :+> Andy <+:
     
  14. Low_Boy

    Low_Boy Well-Known Member

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    How about a quick disconnect take the antenna off when you load then put it back on. I ALWAYS thought the tip of the antenna is what counted.I run a wilson 2000 hits every silo still works great.
     
  15. The DB

    The DB Sr. Member

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    In what way?

    As you approach the tip the antenna is more and more sensitive to the stuff around it, and loading coils basically skip part of that length, which is why you want the loading coil to be above the roof line, you want the parts of the antenna that are more sensitive to the nearby metal to be further away from it.

    However, the tip of the antenna is not the part that radiates the most, in fact it radiates the least. Almost nothing is transmitted (or received) from that part of the antenna. The part of these antennas that is most important for transmitting (and receiving) signals is the part right next to where they screw in to the mount. The bottom of the antenna if you will. Unfortunately, the tip of the antenna needs to be there for the rest of it to work.


    The DB
     

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