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Megawatt Power Supply Spewing Noise on Portions of HF

Wire Weasel

Senior Moment
Dec 13, 2008
3,108
772
223
Have always been happy with the Megawatts and have used for years. Never an issue operating 10-11-12 meters. With my more recent return to full HF I have been somewhat plagued by a horrible noise mostly on 17 &15 meters. Thought it was QRN at first but decided to do the Noise Chasing Game and found it to be the Megawatt on the first try. Spews noise here and there between around 14 to 26mhz and bad from 15 to 25mhz. So I never noticed it on 10 or 11 obviously. Going back to a linear Astron.
 

These MW's are still good suppiles (have 2) and didn't present any issue above 25mhz really so still would be good for 10-11 meter rigs or a 2 meter mobile as a base unit. Before I bought my neighbor's spare Astron RS 35M, I checked my 2nd MW 400 -12 and it spewed the exact same noise and in the same places. So the Astron is in place now and living noise-free. yay
 
Hmmm...Not about the topic brand, but I found this interesting...
It's from a competitor...
upload_2021-5-20_19-27-52.png

Considering how the thread progressed then got to this point, I didn't see anyone ever try to find a solution for that "Hash" that is prevalent in todays switching supplies.

Since most users are into the 11-meter and above, the above "add-on" may seem redundant, but I found this article - a PDF attached, interesting due to the effects of Hash noise and even in typical radios - using IF strips that land in the frequency range, the noise leakage can be heard..

Since most use the heterodyne principle - the IF strips being between 45MHz to as low as 7.8MHz - the above additional support - being what it is, doesn't seem to be included unless it is for such specific purposes of having to use a switching power supply in the regions of where the ambient hash, being the switching noise itself as well as uses of components like Schottky - the effort of Noise suppression becomes evident in any case.
 

Attachments

  • mean-well-user-technical-manual (1).pdf
    3.3 MB · Views: 201
Last edited:
was wondering about them supplys now im at odds with them
 
I have owned switchmode supplys from £5 phone chargers to £5000 3kw lab psu's that make any ham supply look like a pos toy,

One expensive supply went back to the factory for a filter kit installing that helped but did not eliminate the noise,

They all emit some rfi regardless of what people claim about theirs, if yours does not you aint looking right,

If you don't want any rfi don't buy a psu that generates it,

That's like buying a car and expecting a good muffler to make it run silent.
 
If you don't want any rfi don't buy a psu that generates it,

Sigh...That's what seems to be the consensus at this moment. I Agree, the efficiency is a nice benchmark, but when your listening pleasure requires dBuV not dBmV - you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

The "ring" as some call it, others call it Hash and to me it's simple noise, I have had to switch back (SIC) to Linear because of the support, once the SPS has left the factory, is a lot like finding Elvis...

Non existent...

At least to specific types of control - or any feedback from the user trying to interweave their shack with one - only to have to remove said device because of the noises it buries in the QRM when you're QRP and need to be.

No one ever spoke up about the use of the various Diode constructions, the older PN, versus Schottky, or the materials used, Germanium, Silicon, or the Carbide swaps.

upload_2021-5-21_8-4-41.png

No - not these Geraniums

This...
upload_2021-5-21_8-7-35.png

I just wanted to point out something that, if forgotten, we'll never be able to get it back...

That is the inherited "leaky" effects of the older generation of Diode and the intrinsic layering used in it, seems to offer a sensible way to cushion the effects of the switching "clickety clack" - the older LED's even had this effect, junction capacitance, caused by the layers and from the thickness of the layers. Seems we don't have this big of a problem when the older generational parts are used versus the Schottky and N-less possibilities caused by them.

Ok, this may seem more like a word pun, but I need to express the facts of remembering how we got here, not just the Why..

Some of my methods I tried included a "common mode choke" you could buy at a local Car Radio shop - a simple coil cap combo used to help prevent ground loops - using a common mode choke to help with this, but I've found that by placing an low-values- high wattage inductive (Read:Wirewound) resistors ACROSS the output terminals - to be one of the better methods of reducing the hash but it comes at the price of heat and constant loading on the supply itself just to force the ripple and load "curves" to match and intersect to provide some less noise, it's not perfect, but to me it has worked - as a last resort.

All I was doing was changing the location of the hash to a different range of spectrum.

So yes, in the PDF they even admit they shed noise, and the many test tables that they placed it on, got turned on them because of the technology, being so efficient - may have left left others in the dust, but the EMI is still there.

So before I go back into the bushes and hide out again, I just wanted to make some observations from the Street corner of Nowhere, and Here, that to get somewhere, we need to remember whom may be using the next vehicle everyone wants - may wind up drowning out the ability to hear the lesser of many evils and one being the Radio hobby itself, getting left trampled in the dust pile of ores - no one else wants..

Fans may have gotten noisy, the Hash - was it always there? Or only when the OEM supply parts the board was made up with - got used up a new effort had to be made. Forcing them to find another supply route?

Ok, Did they simply use new cross-referenced parts and so the chain can continue - the keyword here is "chain" - the parts themselves can be the weakest link in all of this.

Why the concern?
  • ..- no one ever (or so it seems) bothered to research the parts within the layout, if their internal construction - caused the extra noise - could such design been reworked to reduce the problem and maintain integrity?
  • - their integral parts of the device that makes the devices work, has it caused more harm to the design that, in it's replacement part, does the unit as a whole become less effective at being desired as efficient? (Reading the feedback here - this seems to be it's current direction)
  • - the effort to try the various parts never made it to the Datasheets as a warning - it seems to have been overlooked.

  • The Bane of all this is the traits of SPS versus Linear, having to use one over another seems to be a throwback - backwards as a necessity - to lower the noise floor at the cost of efficiency.
It just seems like poor research.​
 
Last edited:
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Sigh...That's what seems to be the consensus at this moment. I Agree, the efficiency is a nice benchmark, but when your listening pleasure requires dBuV not dBmV - you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

The "ring" as some call it, others call it Hash and to me it's simple noise, I have had to switch back (SIC) to Linear because of the support, once the SPS has left the factory, is a lot like finding Elvis...

Non existent...

At least to specific types of control - or any feedback from the user trying to interweave their shack with one - only to have to remove said device because of the noises it buries in the QRM when you're QRP and need to be.

No one ever spoke up about the use of the various Diode constructions, the older PN, versus Schottky, or the materials used, Germanium, Silicon, or the Carbide swaps.

View attachment 44857
No - not these Geraniums

This...
View attachment 44858
I just wanted to point out something that, if forgotten, we'll never be able to get it back...

That is the inherited "leaky" effects of the older generation of Diode and the intrinsic layering used in it, seems to offer a sensible way to cushion the effects of the switching "clickety clack" - the older LED's even had this effect, junction capacitance, caused by the layers and from the thickness of the layers. Seems we don't have this big of a problem when the older generational parts are used versus the Schottky and N-less possibilities caused by them.

Ok, this may seem more like a word pun, but I need to express the facts of remembering how we got here, not just the Why..

Some of my methods I tried included a "common mode choke" you could buy at a local Car Radio shop - a simple coil cap combo used to help prevent ground loops - using a common mode choke to help with this, but I've found that by placing an low-values- high wattage inductive (Read:Wirewound) resistors ACROSS the output terminals - to be one of the better methods of reducing the hash but it comes at the price of heat and constant loading on the supply itself just to force the ripple and load "curves" to match and intersect to provide some less noise, it's not perfect, but to me it has worked - as a last resort.

All I was doing was changing the location of the hash to a different range of spectrum.

So yes, in the PDF they even admit they shed noise, and the many test tables that they placed it on, got turned on them because of the technology, being so efficient - may have left left others in the dust, but the EMI is still there.

So before I go back into the bushes and hide out again, I just wanted to make some observations from the Street corner of Nowhere, and Here, that to get somewhere, we need to remember whom may be using the next vehicle everyone wants - may wind up drowning out the ability to hear the lesser of many evils and one being the Radio hobby itself, getting left trampled in the dust pile of ores - no one else wants..

Fans may have gotten noisy, the Hash - was it always there? Or only when the OEM supply parts the board was made up with - got used up a new effort had to be made. Forcing them to find another supply route?

Ok, Did they simply use new cross-referenced parts and so the chain can continue - the keyword here is "chain" - the parts themselves can be the weakest link in all of this.

Why the concern?
  • ..- no one ever (or so it seems) bothered to research the parts within the layout, if their internal construction - caused the extra noise - could such design been reworked to reduce the problem and maintain integrity?
  • - their integral parts of the device that makes the devices work, has it caused more harm to the design that, in it's replacement part, does the unit as a whole become less effective at being desired as efficient? (Reading the feedback here - this seems to be it's current direction)
  • - the effort to try the various parts never made it to the Datasheets as a warning - it seems to have been overlooked.

  • The Bane of all this is the traits of SPS versus Linear, having to use one over another seems to be a throwback - backwards as a necessity - to lower the noise floor at the cost of efficiency.
It just seems like poor research.​
lemme ask handy andy,you live at the corner of walk n dont walk by the stop n go ? local repeater has that on their intro with the weakest station in the nation ,with no modulation. its 147.000+ no pl tone
 
No, I live in the middle of the little town of North-Easte South-Weste ("e" IS silent - due to problems with Potatoe and Potato farmers not getting their fair share) out the rolling farming hills of middle America - by the 7-11 and last Radio Shack still open...

Where, not matter where you go, you're going somewhere...
 
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A few times a year I go out camping with the local Jeep Club, and set up antennas for CB, VHF, and UHF to keep touch with a Jeep Run with as many as 50 Jeeps in the run. I keep an ear out for lost or people in trouble on the Jeep Run, and with the three radios it can get busy radio wise. Have a Honda Generator that runs the Megwatt 50 Amp power supply used as a battery charger / keep alive supply for the 12 volt battery on the table with all the radios and such.

I have noticed a very small amount of noise coming from the 50 amp Megwatt supply that is not a big deal as all the received stations could be easily heard. Compared to the Renogy Solar Cell voltage controller the Megwatt noise was not a problem.

I called the Renogy customer service and got a big nothing for a answer. Seems there no FCC requirements for solar cell controllers / voltage regulators for RFI interference, and they knew it. Ok so I installed a Victron controller and zero RFI interference. Now the batteries can be charged without blast of all frequencies of the likes of a military jammer. The Renogy controller was installed in a metal box, all the input and output wires were bypassed and snap on ferrites were put on, a lot of them. I measured approx -45dB reduction in noise, but still had the Renogy RFI noise all over the bands.

This excise in RFI trouble shooting and fix was a real hair puller, as all the wires and controller, and solar cells radiated a common mode RFI. Charming....

Jay in the Great Mojave Desert
 
A few times a year I go out camping with the local Jeep Club, and set up antennas for CB, VHF, and UHF to keep touch with a Jeep Run with as many as 50 Jeeps in the run. I keep an ear out for lost or people in trouble on the Jeep Run, and with the three radios it can get busy radio wise. Have a Honda Generator that runs the Megwatt 50 Amp power supply used as a battery charger / keep alive supply for the 12 volt battery on the table with all the radios and such.

I have noticed a very small amount of noise coming from the 50 amp Megwatt supply that is not a big deal as all the received stations could be easily heard. Compared to the Renogy Solar Cell voltage controller the Megwatt noise was not a problem.

I called the Renogy customer service and got a big nothing for a answer. Seems there no FCC requirements for solar cell controllers / voltage regulators for RFI interference, and they knew it. Ok so I installed a Victron controller and zero RFI interference. Now the batteries can be charged without blast of all frequencies of the likes of a military jammer. The Renogy controller was installed in a metal box, all the input and output wires were bypassed and snap on ferrites were put on, a lot of them. I measured approx -45dB reduction in noise, but still had the Renogy RFI noise all over the bands.

This excise in RFI trouble shooting and fix was a real hair puller, as all the wires and controller, and solar cells radiated a common mode RFI. Charming....

Jay in the Great Mojave Desert
i kinda wondered about that solar save the planet crap. in my big truck i parked by a solar panel covered roof at a place i unload at. squelch up full n hash still came over speaker from a usually easy quieting radio
 
A few times a year I go out camping with the local Jeep Club, and set up antennas for CB, VHF, and UHF to keep touch with a Jeep Run with as many as 50 Jeeps in the run. I keep an ear out for lost or people in trouble on the Jeep Run, and with the three radios it can get busy radio wise. Have a Honda Generator that runs the Megwatt 50 Amp power supply used as a battery charger / keep alive supply for the 12 volt battery on the table with all the radios and such.

I have noticed a very small amount of noise coming from the 50 amp Megwatt supply that is not a big deal as all the received stations could be easily heard. Compared to the Renogy Solar Cell voltage controller the Megwatt noise was not a problem.

I called the Renogy customer service and got a big nothing for a answer. Seems there no FCC requirements for solar cell controllers / voltage regulators for RFI interference, and they knew it. Ok so I installed a Victron controller and zero RFI interference. Now the batteries can be charged without blast of all frequencies of the likes of a military jammer. The Renogy controller was installed in a metal box, all the input and output wires were bypassed and snap on ferrites were put on, a lot of them. I measured approx -45dB reduction in noise, but still had the Renogy RFI noise all over the bands.

This excise in RFI trouble shooting and fix was a real hair puller, as all the wires and controller, and solar cells radiated a common mode RFI. Charming....

Jay in the Great Mojave Desert
Quick question about charging a battery with the Megawatt, what voltage do you have the Megawatt set at?
 
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