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Multi-band wire antenna

S

SLR_65

Active Member
Dec 27, 2014
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Hi Guys,

I just upgraded to General class and since I've been working so hard to get that license and the privileges it conveys, I'd like to be able to use as many of the bands as possible.

I have a small lot in town though, and a small budget.

I'm thinking of an offset feed antenna such as a Windom. That's not set in stone though, I'm completely open to suggestions.

I'm not really sold on the claims of the Carolina Windom, basically it seems to good to be true, and i noticed their db gain claims were a compilation of actual tests and user feedback. How do you quantify user feedback to a db gain number? That said, I don't think a Windom is a bad antenna either - I don't want to sell it short because someone is over hyping their version of it, I don't really think there is a "bad" antenna, just some antennas work better in some locations. Compromises due to space, etc. are more what differentiate
and make one antenna a better match for a particular site or operator than another. If there was one particular perfect antenna then everyone would be using it.

In my case I want a multi-band antenna. Due to lot size issues an 80 meter is about all I can fit on the lot, and that's close. I want to use a mast planted in the ground and attached to the side of the house, so I'm stuck with about 30' forward or back I can move the mast. The back yard is deeper than the front, so a Windom with it's offset feed kinda works out there.

If I gave up 80 meters then a fan dipole could probably be made to fit. I really want 80 meters though...I think. As I said, I'm new so I don't know what 80 meters is like, I'm simply wanting to take advantage of as many of my privileges as possible. If in the future I don't spend much time on 80 meters then I have no issue revisiting the antenna and trying something else. In fact I'll probably do that just because i like to experiment, but for now I just want to get on the air with as many bands as possible and quick/inexpensive would also be nice.

Am I on the right track here, or is there some other antenna that may fit the bill for me? As I said, I'm not stuck on the Windom, if clamping on the rain gutter, and maybe jumpering over to the neighbors gutters, would work then I'm open to it!

Thanks!

Steve
 

http://www.hamuniverse.com/hfdoublet.html
Steve: Congrats on your General
Good all propose antenna for 80-10m...cheap and effective....a good antenna tuner can be built cheap also depending on your power requirements....
To work all bands stay away IMO from G5RV's (still need a tuner)remember a G5RV was made for 20m....works as a radiating dummy load on other bands....OCF dipoles work OK but again most won't work well on 17m/12m without a tuner or a very expensive balun like a 6/1 or 9/1(BuckMaster's seem to get best reports BUT their's is over $250 usd!)...
With the bigger back yard look at a Loop antenna,(square or Delta) they work well even at low height.
You've got lots of options....even a Vertical/ground mounted can work well with LOTS of wire under them
http://www.ve3sqb.com/hamaerials/wb1fsb/novice.pdf

here's a damn nice little package for your doublet....

http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-wa-135
Many are here to help!
All the Best
Gary/W9FNB
 
Thanks guys! More options to look at...

I was looking at the ocf because it seems it doesn't work a tuner too hard, many can use them tunerless, though most do touch up with a tuner. The off set split fits my yard like a glove too.

However...hmmm, I DO have room for a 67' square loop. The kicker there is the cost of the four poles though.

I like a fan dipole, as I like the ability to tune each band, but there's no way to get an 80 meter dipole to fit the yard.

Hmmm, wire is cheap, I may just do a 40 meter antenna and get on the air and then work on 80 later...it's wire and I like to play, so I'm sure this isn't going to be the antenna I run for the rest of my amateur career! :cool:

How useful is 80? My interest is DX more than local.
 
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Congrats on the general!
I have a small lot with a nosy neighbor who imposes their lot restriction uses on my property. I got this antenna and have not heard a word about it except "What does that do?" (I tolerate them and pretend to care.) I have made contacts on all bands with it and get good reports on signal strength.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5336136228&icep_item=141244173399
Get this as well. http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5336136228&icep_item=141209547404
 
Last edited:
I have a QSO-King up, it the 67' one. It does work but it raditates into everything. With 100 watts it sets off my doorbell, gets into the TV, clock radio in the kitchen.The dipole does not do this.
 
w9cll said:
With 100 watts it sets off my doorbell, gets into the TV, clock radio in the kitchen.The dipole does not do this.
Click to expand...
I have mine setup in the sloper configuration and my system does not do this. Station grounds are fresh and I do have the isolator in line.
Do you think it might be because it is an end fed antenna? For the space I have available it was the best answer for me. Pretty easy to get the coax and matching transformer up 40 to 50 feet in the air and slope down to 20 feet. Now I am concerned when I hook up my Yaesu FT2100 amplifier I'll be messing up all of the neighbors electronics.
 
SLR_65 said:
Interesting, the QSO-King seems to enjoy good reviews!
Click to expand...

Read those reviews carefully and see how they compare to what?
To get you on the air...Yep they work...to work well you need radials...
One review gives it a 5/5 and in the text turns around and says it's 1-2 S units below his center feed Zepp (doublet)...
Several were CW op's....Much easier making contacts where there's not much competition....5 watts and a couple coat hangers will make contacts also.
I am just saying Steve, don't fall into the Hype of this is great or that is wonderful...
Every antenna location is different...What works for someone may not work elsewhere.
You'll never get just one antenna to do everything well...
BUT to me that's the fun part...
Look-up W8JK wire antenna...that's what I have on 80-17m...I do OK but I know there are better.
Enjoy
All the Best
Gary
 
I was looking at the reviews on e-ham not his feedback. Most of the reviews were from guys who had hard locations to get an antenna on so this is basically the only one they tried and it worked, so of course they're happy.

Several others though did some comparisons, one was to a doublet and he preferred the QSO-King, another compared it to some dipoles and preferred it, and one even mentioned the ocf and preferred the QSO-King.

I understand that a lot of this varies with location, band conditions, etc. and that there really are no "bad" antennas, if there were one perfect design we'd all be using it.

I've not made up my mind yet, I'm studying to take the Extra test in a month and letting the weather warm up a bit before starting outdoor construction projects, so I have time.

I'm leaning towards the ocf yet, mostly because it simply fits my lot well. I have a rectangular lot and the house is about 1/3 of the way into it and I want to anchor the middle support pole to the house, so though I have the lot depth for an 80 meter dipole or doublets over all length, the center feed doesn't work with where I want to put the center support pole.

I could put up a loop, but the pole cost is a bit more. Also, the power feed to the house comes in the back, a couple sites I read said you shouldn't have a power line cross the loop and I'd have no way to avoid that.

The random wire I think could be made to work, basically installed like an inverted vee but end fed from the end nearest the house. A little more difficult to get the feedline into the house, but it's not a deal breaker.

The off center feed Windom style is basically the same materials cost and probably a little better fit than the end fed due to being easier to get the feed into the house, but again it's no biggie.

I'm more interested in DX, which is what prompted me to get a General ticket and the associated HF bands. And the ocf has more comments about it being good for DX at lower install heights, though I'm not putting a lot of stock in that as the sellers of the ocfs have done a good job of marketing. The thing is that for all the hype, there's no real "it sucks" posts either. I think an ocf is an effective antenna, as most antennas are. Whether one flavor of it works better than another is up for discussion, but I don't think any one flavor is really any worse either. From what I gather, they are kind of lobey in their pattern and if one uses a voltage balun you can get some rf back in the shack, though a current balun will help with that. The Carolina version takes advantage of that a bit, it uses a voltage balun which allows a vertical part of the feed to radiate, then they put a choke at the bottom of that radiating part to keep the rf out of the shack. The object is to get some vertical radiation to help offset the lobey radiation pattern and make it more truly omni-directional. I dunno if I buy that, but then again there's no reviews that say that design works worse than the traditional design using a current balun, so that modification evidently doesn't hurt anything and just costs some ferrite beads.

Like I said, the object is to get up and on the air and I'd like 80 meter if possible. The ocf and the random wire fit the lot better. A loop would also fit, but cost more for supports and would cross the power feed, though I wonder if the several feet of separation wouldn't negate that issue.

The only real pro for the ocf over the random wire is the need for a tuner, I don't have one yet, though I know it's in my future, so it's not a deal breaker either, but the ocf with careful construction and tuning could operate several bands without a tuner (I do have access to an antenna analyzer), and if a tuner is needed on some bands it's usually still pretty close and doesn't work the tuner as hard to get a good match and it just seems to me that not making the tuner work as hard is beneficial, though I imagine that may not be rooted in fact.

Decisions, decisions...
 
Tallman said:
I have mine setup in the sloper configuration and my system does not do this. Station grounds are fresh and I do have the isolator in line.
Do you think it might be because it is an end fed antenna? For the space I have available it was the best answer for me. Pretty easy to get the coax and matching transformer up 40 to 50 feet in the air and slope down to 20 feet. Now I am concerned when I hook up my Yaesu FT2100 amplifier I'll be messing up all of the neighbors electronics.
Click to expand...
I am not the only one that is having this issue, there is another ham close to me who has a QSO-King up as well except his is 136' long. AS I said the antenna does work and works well it just gets into everything.
 
QSO-King by it's self or QSO-King with a line isolator installed?

From what I've read, the line radiating on these and ocf antennas is a problem and a line isolator helps deal with it.
 
SLR_65 said:
...Hmmm, wire is cheap, I may just do a 40 meter antenna and get on the air and then work on 80 later...it's wire and I like to play, so I'm sure this isn't going to be the antenna I run for the rest of my amateur career! :cool:

How useful is 80? .
Click to expand...

congrats on your upgrade!

I rarely use 75 meters (phone),... just too many cliques there for me, YMMV.

if you really want to use 75/80 meters, then read up on LOADING coils and have fun building a "shortened" 75 meter doublet and use a tuner for the higher bands as required.

be advised that many people on 75 close up their squelch to reduce the summer storm background noise, soooooooo, if you don't have a big signal, they may "not hear " you.

40 meters is a GREAT band IMO
 
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