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Need help to amplify my VHF marine radio for fishing offshore/ increase range

counterpoise

just throwing my rookiness in here again with another question but...isn't the coax cable designed as the ground plane for these marine none ground set ups and therefore cut to a specific length? just thought i had read that somewhere i certainly don't have any experience running them. but sometimes the only dumb question is the one that is not asked and I a learning. thanks for your patience.
 
Mole, marine antennas don't work that way. The coax is sealed into the antenna to avoid corrosion. He will have to cut the provided coax short, solder on a PL-259, and use a barrel connector to add a length of better, low loss coax if he chooses to go that route.
Personally, I think his best investment would be in a higher gain antenna, and an extension, mounted on the t-top.

OK cool...I've never had a reason to take one apart, so I was ASSuming :)

I agree that the better antenna and extension is the place to start.

just throwing my rookiness in here again with another question but...isn't the coax cable designed as the ground plane for these marine none ground set ups and therefore cut to a specific length? just thought i had read that somewhere i certainly don't have any experience running them. but sometimes the only dumb question is the one that is not asked and I a learning. thanks for your patience.
It depends on the antenna. There are certainly a few like that out there that use the coax shield as counterpoise and I would avoid them. If you find one that requires a certain coax length, I would avoid that, too. It gets pretty technical pretty quick if you want to know why. However, many of them are 1/2 wave antennas that don't require a counterpoise. An awful lot are some type of vertically phased array where the bottom part of the array is also a 1/2 wave antenna or they're just multiple 1/2 wave phased antennas, meaning you still don't have to worry about the counterpoise.

Tim
 
A vertical antenna - by virtue of its design - is 'omni-directional (radiates in all directions equally).

That 10 db gain antenna would be the antenna that I would choose. Also using LMR-400 with non-crimp connectors. Between these two changes, you would have vastly improved transmit and receive.

I know that you already know this but; a vertical co-phased antenna does NOT radiate equally in all directions. It radiates equally in a circular pattern in the horizontal plane but has a very compressed vertical radiation angle. The stated 10 DBi (Isotropic is the i in DBi and is the only true "omni-directional radiator) gain in the aforementioned antenna comes from this vertical compression and assumes that the antenna remains fixed in a perfectly vertical position. It is also the reason that co-linear antennas are not always the best antennas to use, especially in mountainous terrain.
In a rolling environment such as a small 27ft boat on 8ft seas, you could probably expect the antenna to vary between at least 45 to 315 degrees. Would this negate the advantage of a 10DBi antenna? I don't know, but it may be a valid consideration.
 
That calculator is pretty neat, but as a general rule I would double the range for an antenna 6' off the ground, assuming the other antenna is 6' off the ground.

I used these alot as a kid living on the coast. Most of us had handhelds, they were quite popular for a number of reasons over installed units.

Thats about the range we used to get between handhelds on a clear day, about 6 miles, and the actual power radiated from a 'rubber duck' with 5 watts going into it not much more than 1watt.

When talking to someone with an installed unit and fiberglass antenna from a handheld typical range was 10 to 12 miles on a clear day, regardless of if they were using 25 or 5 watts power.

Bad weather would cut your range in half, but almost always you could reach the coast guard in an emergency.

I have put up antennas for the coast guard, they like them high up as possible, sometimes tens of miles from the water, typically 400' or higher up on a tower. The setup was nothing more than a commercial motorola unit setup to the coast guard frequencies. The engineer told me it only put out 25 watts of power.

Moral of the story is, on VHF you are limited by your line of site. If with a theoretical telescope you cant see the top of his antenna from the top of your antenna there will be no communications.
If the top of your antenna is at 10' and the USCG is at 400', if the formulas of this horizon calculator are correct, then your line of site is 4 miles and his is 24.5, then the line of site from antenna to antenna is 28.5mi, however this will be obstructed for the most part by the earth itself, so after 26 miles (line of site distance from the bottom of the antenna), the signal will rapidly degrade.

High power is great for blasting through rain, humidity, pine trees, buildings, talking over interference and getting the most out of that last 2 miles of range before your line of site is completely gone, but its not going to get you more direct range than line of site.

Sure VHF can go hundreds and even thousands of miles, but thats if it skips because of atmospheric phenomena, and thats if, and then, just as the name implies, it skips, as in skips the local coast guard 40 miles away and ends up coming down and being picked up by the local coast guard 400 miles away who aint got clue where you are at, and thats if, skip is not a reliable way to communicate, its more like a rare phenomena with vhf FM.

Up on my mountaintop, with a 30 watt 2 meter setup and a 5db antenna, I could hit repeaters 60 miles away even in the worst of weather. I was 3000' agl and their repeater was 2000' AGL, and I could always hit it loud and clear.

I think buying an amp would be a big waste of money. If you cant get the ranges I described (over water not land), something is wrong with your system.

Scrap the RG8, get LMR400, its not expensive for such a short run as on a boat, and its much more robust and durable than RG8. Have a radio shop do it if you are not 100% confident you can route, ground, connectorize, test the coax and tune the antenna, because from what you say this really is life or death.

And heat shrink or wrap those connections. Cant stress this enough. My work is often up on a tower, and I see connectors fill with water even when wrapped or heat shrink, because if done poorly even it fails, o-rings dry rot and fail on "water tight connectors", barrels unscrew and water seeps through! Just a little bit of water will cause most of your power to 'reflect' right back to the radio instead of the antenna, so will a kinked line, a poorly done connector or mismatched (poorly tuned) antenna, but water tends to be the worst. It often results in a radio failure as well.

Once again, spend the money on a good install instead of the amp, 25watts is plenty for over water.
 
The OP has a 27' center console. He has EPIRB but doesn't want to deploy in situations like engine issues, he'd rather contact another captain on marine VHF.

His boat is an open hull design and will get wet in seas. His helm is exposed to the elements.
The marine VHF is usually rated for submersion to some extent so it can be exposed in the rain and salt water as he plows thru the swells. Would a marine HF transceiver be waterproof?

The USCG monitors ch-16 for calls including Mayday, Pan-Pan, and lesser issues of distress that may need monitoring, such as engine failure.
I don't know that they monitor HF.

The USCG does not provide tows, fuel deliveries, jumpstarts, they are not like AAA. Those tasks go out to commercial contractors like SeaTow and Tow Boat US

Tow Boat US and SeaTow have their limits in their service plans as to how far off shore they will go and may not be an option at distance. And you still need to reach them on marine VHF, Channels 16 or 9.(back to the problem)

Every recreational boater that has a marine VHF is required by the USCG to monitor ch-16.
The OP's antenna is probably mounted to his T-top (8' above waterline) and extends another 8' in length if I understand him correctly.

I can't comment on adding an amp to his VHF.

What I would suggest is that traveling out, listen to the other boaters on air. Ask for a radio check from any vessel as you get out there. See if another captain is closer to shore and can act as a relay. Maintain contact.
I know this doesn't solve the problem but it is what I would do.
File a float plan and let someone know where your destination is and the approximate time that you will return.

At least someone will know where to start looking.

Be safe out there
 

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