New antenna from Sirio Gain-Master

[HomerBB]

Say, Ol' grandpa, welcome to the mulliegrubs.

 

[okiebob]

Well I see H &Y Electronics has raised there price on the GM,
At there store front it was 139.00 now its $179.95 plus S&H
and there Ebay store its was 129.00 now its 169.95 plus S&H.
So I guess its back to the I-Max 2000 for me.
I can't see paying that much for what it is.
If it was a aluminum antenna there would at least be a scrap
value, but a glass antenna can only go to the dump.

 

[CDX-007]

Well I see H &Y Electronics has raised there price on the GM,
At there store front it was 139.00 now its $179.95 plus S&H
and there Ebay store its was 129.00 now its 169.95 plus S&H.
So I guess its back to the I-Max 2000 for me.
I can't see paying that much for what it is.
If it was a aluminum antenna there would at least be a scrap
value, but a glass antenna can only go to the dump.

Hey there Okiebob,

If you plan to run big power or mount it up through the middle of an horizontal beam then you're probably better off with the Imax, however, if it's just going up in the air by itself well above other metal objects and won't be seeing more than about 500w-600w pep you'll be sacrificing about an S-unit of performance (the difference I saw between my Imax & Sirio GM on the same mast / coax) to save ~$75, plus the Imax is prone to suffering from a considerably higher noise level.

As far as fiberglass, it's rather thick-wall and is easily painted to preserve it for decades without it growing 'hair'.
- Just don't use metallic paint!!

 

[okiebob]

Hey there Okiebob,

If you plan to run big power or mount it up through the middle of an horizontal beam then you're probably better off with the Imax, however, if it's just going up in the air by itself well above other metal objects and won't be seeing more than about 500w-600w pep you'll be sacrificing about an S-unit of performance (the difference I saw between my Imax & Sirio GM on the same mast / coax) to save ~$75, plus the Imax is prone to suffering from a considerably higher noise level.

As far as fiberglass, it's rather thick-wall and is easily painted to preserve it for decades without it growing 'hair'.
- Just don't use metallic paint!!

Hey 007
Thanks for the tips , I'm just putting this Base Station together and since I haven't worked in over two years I'm looking for the best bang for the buck.
I had moved away from the I-Max because I have heard they are noisy and I have High Power lines about 65 feet from where the mast is at. The Dipole I'm running is crackling and sizzling all the time.

 

[simonradioman]

Jeff, the info is on Charlie Tango. I think there was talk of 800 to 1KW on FM maybe, which is an abuse. I don't recall the specifics right now. I think Sirio sent a new harness out with an updated capacitor design, I've asked for more pictures of the inside of the shrink wrap. I think maybe they were anticipating some arcing.

I like the people at Sirio, they're smart business folks and treat their customers right, thank you.

I was told someone wrote something not entirely true so wanted to reply. The antenna melted when used with a KL300 so if that is 1kw then let it be so. Sirio now state, the designer via email 125W AM. 400w SSB and around 40OFM is the maximum the antenna will take as then it arcs, this makes the burn and the antenna is dead. I have now tried all 3 series of the inside, the last is by far the best but keep the power low and not what is quoted via some specifications. So the antenna is weak but works well. BUT, someone local here tested a metal 5/8 with 200w and a Gain Master with 200w and was exactly same signal when tested on same pole. When there video comes online will send you links, it is around 1/2 hour long and shows via editing both sides of the conversation.

Simon

 

[CDX-007]

I was told someone wrote something not entirely true so wanted to reply. The antenna melted when used with a KL300 so if that is 1kw then let it be so. Sirio now state, the designer via email 125W AM. 400w SSB and around 40OFM is the maximum the antenna will take as then it arcs, this makes the burn and the antenna is dead. I have now tried all 3 series of the inside, the last is by far the best but keep the power low and not what is quoted via some specifications. So the antenna is weak but works well. BUT, someone local here tested a metal 5/8 with 200w and a Gain Master with 200w and was exactly same signal when tested on same pole. When there video comes online will send you links, it is around 1/2 hour long and shows via editing both sides of the conversation.

Simon

This is disheartening considering the advertised power is:

"Max Power 500 Watts (CW) continuous, 1000 Watts (CW) short time"

- So that should allow at least 500w pep, if not a full Kw @ typical 30% SSB duty cycle.

- Now I can't use my SB-200 on 10m without turning it down to 400w pep?

- It's still a good design, but they need to get the pep up to 10m USA General Class power rating of 1500w pep, especially since the price has gone up to ~$200 shipped.

Geez, just when I thought I'd solved my tree-mounting issues of no P500 due to radials and no Imax due to noise, now no SGM due to no power!

GRRRRRR

 

[Marconi]

007, with that little 30% increase in price, I have a feeling we won't be seeing "out of stock" on the Gain Master real soon at H & Y, if and when they get their next order in.

It could be Sirio increasing the price into the States, but for some reason I kinda' doubt Sirio is the greedy one here. BTW, I will not be giving the Gain Master anymore reviews after this series of testing is completed. The Gain Master is retired from reviewing at my location due to what I call price gouging.

I put up my Imax today and I'll be doing a final video report in this series before I start doing my testing...one antenna at a time on my new mount. Y'all think the testing videos have been exciting thus far, just wait until Ole' Grampa does his video testing one antenna at a time and you'll see some real excitement.

I've never showed a good report testing with my Imax and I can't wait to check this one out next to the GM. I've always had a poor opinion of my Imax compared to my other antennas.

I averaged all eight test in this recent series vs the Gain Master so far:

59.3/8 = 7.4 Gain Master
28.4/4 = 7.1 AstroPlane
21.9/3 = 7.3 A99
7.31/1 = 7.3 I-10K

Here is my Imax vs. GM with both mounted 35' feet apart on the mast at 33'8" to the top of the mount. Signal video will be posted when completed.



Here is my video of the GM vs. Imax shown above in the image. This is not signals from my buds, I got these on channel 19 and are random.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6Im_UkwNfM

 

[nav2010]

Marconi, if I were testing one antenna against another I would be concious about having them parallel with one another. There will be attenuation between them without a doubt. The best way in my opinion is to mount each antenna on the same pole with no other antennae in attendance. That will give you a true measurement.

 

[Marconi]

I just posted my GM vs. Imax video in my post above with the image of the two antennas installed at the same height to the mount.

 

[Marconi]

Marconi, if I were testing one antenna against another I would be concious about having them parallel with one another. There will be attenuation between them without a doubt. The best way in my opinion is to mount each antenna on the same pole with no other antennae in attendance. That will give you a true measurement.

Nav, I've tested each antenna alone in this series so far and done it on both mounts as well. I also videoed the side by side testing, and I switched the antenna mount and tested again, side by side for any differences between the mounts.

I haven't studied all the data yet to see what conclusions or averages I can draw between the mounts and the individual difference, if any. I posted the reports in my album, but I doubt anybody will spend the time to rehash the results, good or bad. I'll get around to adding captions to the images of the Signal Reports I posted, but like in most cases CB guys just look at the pictures and don't spend much time reading the words describing the images. I could also just make "comments" like happens all the time and not show a thing in support, that would be much easier. This is why it happens all the time, cause it's easy to just "cast comments" on the forums.

If you would like to see a video of me signal testing an antenna by itself, then let me know. I'll do it special for you and either email it or PM you the results. It's like watching grass grow, is that what you want. There is absolutely nothing to see in such a task, if you think about it. I'm just taking the time to watch my radio's meter and record the signals. It's not worth the time and trouble to video signals for a single antenna. I don't get any cooperation in testing antennas from my local buds...so I only do local RX signals I see from a regular group of buddies that are on the radio regular enough for the report to make some sense. It maybe be better to record two way discussions during the testing of a single antenna, but I just don't have that luxury with others around me. That might be interesting though.

This is not scientific work. At best maybe it will give some a little incite into some questions they might have in their thinking to themselves about,

"...(WHAT IF) I GOT THIS ANTENNA OR THAT ONE AND RAISED IT UP TO THIS HEIGHT OR THAT?"​

I'm not trying to change anybodies mind, this stuff...is what it is. The purpose is only intended to stimulate conversation on a subject that interests me.​

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[nav2010]

I can appreciate your difficulty is getting radio reports for your antenna tests.
It is a shame you don't have an FM station about 30-40 miles away who you can rely on for such testing then you could cut out the unreliability of the side bands and the uncertainty of what people are TXing on them.
I have tested Antenna before but i've always used the same location, pole, coax and so forth. I use FM to test because it doesn't get effected as much by conditions out of my control like the side bands do.
It's a shame you can't send someone in a mobile station with a set up to give you better reports.

 

[dxswe]

I can appreciate your difficulty is getting radio reports for your antenna tests.
It is a shame you don't have an FM station about 30-40 miles away who you can rely on for such testing then you could cut out the unreliability of the side bands and the uncertainty of what people are TXing on them.
I have tested Antenna before but i've always used the same location, pole, coax and so forth. I use FM to test because it doesn't get effected as much by conditions out of my control like the side bands do.
It's a shame you can't send someone in a mobile station with a set up to give you better reports.

I agree with you, it easier to do test with FM
because the fm it's more stable signal than am and ssb.

I have owned both I-max 2000 and Antron 99 and I can only say that
GM is better.Before I could not hear my friend who lives 60km
from me when we talk on fm.But with the GM it's now possible.
Hes signal report to me is S5 to S6..I-max and antron have more static
background noise the another antenna I have tried..

 

[Marconi]

I was told someone wrote something not entirely true so wanted to reply. The antenna melted when used with a KL300 so if that is 1kw then let it be so. Sirio now state, the designer via email 125W AM. 400w SSB and around 40OFM is the maximum the antenna will take as then it arcs, this makes the burn and the antenna is dead. I have now tried all 3 series of the inside, the last is by far the best but keep the power low and not what is quoted via some specifications. So the antenna is weak but works well. BUT, someone local here tested a metal 5/8 with 200w and a Gain Master with 200w and was exactly same signal when tested on same pole. When there video comes online will send you links, it is around 1/2 hour long and shows via editing both sides of the conversation.

Simon

Hey Simon, this is Marconi. If this was me that posted something no entirely true, then let me know...I want to explain or say I'm sorry, OK?

 

[Marconi]

I agree with you, it easier to do test with FM
because the fm it's more stable signal than am and ssb.

I have owned both I-max 2000 and Antron 99 and I can only say that
GM is better.Before I could not hear my friend who lives 60km
from me when we talk on fm.But with the GM it's now possible.
Hes signal report to me is S5 to S6..I-max and antron have more static
background noise the another antenna I have tried..

Hey dxswe, I just took my Imax down comparing it to my Gain Master with both side by side and replaced it with a New Top One from Sirio. My Imax was nasty with TVI, but it matched as well as the GM and produced on average about the same RX signals. The results swapped back and forth on which was best, with maybe an edge for the GM.

I agree with you on both counts, it is a more reliable way to get good results. I'm looking for feed back on the process and what and how is the best way to get the information and what do you do with it and how many reports do you consider is a good test? Do you do two-way checks? Do you do random test or do you make a plan to meet with your test stations?

Do you have any records you could post showing your testing of the GM, Imax, and A99? I'm also interested in the type of soil your station is located over and do you consider that important to your results?

 

[Marconi]

I agree with you, it easier to do test with FM
because the fm it's more stable signal than am and ssb.

I have owned both I-max 2000 and Antron 99 and I can only say that
GM is better.Before I could not hear my friend who lives 60km
from me when we talk on fm.But with the GM it's now possible.
Hes signal report to me is S5 to S6..I-max and antron have more static
background noise the another antenna I have tried..

Dxswe, here is my Signal Report for my Gain Master vs. Imax and I get about the same signals with a little advantage in favor of the GM.

View attachment Gain Master vs. Imax.pdf

My recent Signal Reports are posted in my album here on WWRF and when I compared the GM to my A99, not one of the reports for the A99 showed less than 7.2 sunit average on three reports, which is better than the Imax in the image above.

I hear it all the time that almost everything around in CB verticals trounces the old A99, but I didn't see that recently and you can also look as some older reports I have posted as well...that show the same regarding the A99. I don't tout the A99, because I know that some give problems, but out of three A99's over the years...this one really performs well for me. The others did too, but they were nasty with TVI problems, like my Imax above. I have never like my Imax for this reason, but it too works great even compared to my New Gain Master which doesn't raise a hint of TVI or RF problems in my shack.

Sorry if you guys saw this earlier than my edit, I posted the wrong image to the post. It is corrected now.