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Noisy Pride DX-300

Moleculo

Ham Radio Nerd
Apr 14, 2002
9,200
1,686
283
The bearings in the blower in my Pride DX-300 is noisy as hell. They make a buzzing noise that is picked up by any mic (plus it's annoying just being in the same room). I've already replaced it with a new one from RF parts, and it's just as noisy. Anyone (Nomad, maybe?) know of a fix for this? If I turn the amp on it's side, the bearing noise is better, but then it doesn't vent well.
 

all those prides make a hell of a racket. a buddy of mine got fed up with his and disconnected the fan, he placed a squirrel cage fan under his house and plumbed hoses to the amp, the fan is the only thing i dislike about that amp...
 
RF Parts still sells that one. Their stock number is 87-1250-00, sixty bucks.

A new one will be a lot quieter than an original, so long as it doesn't get drop-kicked too hard in shipment.

They start to get loud after the first ten or fifteen years of use. There's no easy way to get oil onto the bearing, and it just dries out.

Don't know of an alternate source for that exact unit. A substitute will call for metal work. You can't use a blade-type fan because of the back pressure. Lots of air friction is caused by the close spacing of the fins inside the tube's anode ring. To pump against this "back pressure" you need a centrifugal blower. Same reason this kind of blower is used in a forced-air central furnace. The air friction from pumping air into ductwork creates the same kind of back pressure. A centrifugal (squirrel-cage) blower will pump against back pressure. Blade fans just won't.

73
 
Hello Moleculo:

Steve has the same problem with his Pride DX 300. He got a better fan and will be mounting it on the back of the chassie.

This blower is larger than the stock blower, so more air will flow.

Eimac says in the "Care and Feeding of Power Grid Tubes"
http://www.cpii.com/eimac/
that the tube ratings can be pushed if more air is supplied thru the tubes cooling fins.

The stock 4CX250B was removed and a 8930 was installed, so now he is seeing the Bird wattmeter get closer to the peg on the 1 KW scale.

Jay in the Mojave
 
So its as easy as buying the right chimney and just plugging the 8930 in.........Thanks How interesting.

Thanks Fred :D
 
Jay in the Mojave said:
Hello Fred:

I believe the Chimney was modified or added for the 8930 tube.

Jay

Yup, the tube is the same electrically, same socket and same voltage however, because the Anode surface is larger it can dissapate more watts thus the higher ratings. it does need the bigger chimney used by the CX-350 class tube (SK-646 versus SK-606 for the CX-250 Family).

.
 
Hey Nomad....I DID shell out the bucks about two years ago for a new fan from RF Parts...but it was just as bad as the old one. Oh well...i guess it's just a crappy part. Maybe I should go shopping to try and find a better, quieter one that will fit the spot.
 
Hello Master Chief:

I would think that the 4CX400 would work, but I would have to look at the tube pin out and chimney. And make sure the screen and control grid voltage are close.

I know we have used a 4CX350A and it worked great. I ran accross a Pride DX 300 with a flatter than flat tube. I had a brand new new 4CX350A, and installed it. I think I adjusted the Control Grid Bias Voltage a tad one way to match what the Eimac spec sheet said for Class Ab1.

But the thinking of reworking a Pride DX 300 or KW-1, or even a older D&A Phantom with a say a larger tube like the 4CX1500B or Soviet 4CX2500 Tetrode tickles my fancy.

Oh sure its a major modification, but well worth the money and time to have a old treasure sitting there putting out a cleaner signal, and several times more power. Giving off the old nostalgia look in the shack.Kind of like a old car with a new hot rod motor.

At the TRW Swap Meet I saw a mint Palamar Skipper 300 with the chrom cover. It was modified to have two 4CX350A's with a seperate power supply and blower. The Amp looked great there all stock looking, but was greared to the teeth to bend the watt meter hard against the peg at the 1 KW Scale. I missed buying it.

Jay in the Mojave


Master Chief said:
Actually, there are differences between the 250B and the 250R and I've been taught that minor changes are required to correclty use the R in place of the B in the DX-300. This would also be true for the 8930. The larger anode does require the larger chimney.


If the 4CX400A can replace the 8930, I wonder if it could be used in the DX-300 with minimal changes too.

http://216.87.144.102/svetlana/TechBulletins/appnoteNO.5.asp
 
Wow! This thread got lively, and no name-calling yet, either.

Cool.

Uh Jay, I gotta differ with you about the Eimac 4CX350A tube. They rate the tube's control grid at zero Watts. A pretty good indication they want the tube held strictly to clas AB1, no grid current. If you have a way to enforce this, the tube takes next-to-NO drive to make it work, but can be easily damaged by excess grid dissipation. If you believe the rated "zero" Watt control-grid rating, an ALC setup that holds the drive level just below the point where it draws grid current will keep you out of trouble.

As a result I NEVER recommend this type to an AM operator. Never. Not a chance in Hades those folks will stick to anything that even sounds like a, er, uh, "limit".

The '350A has almost 3 times the voltage gain of a '250. The higher sensitivity of the 350's control grid is what makes it so fragile, with NO rating for any grid current at all. The control-grid wires are VERY thin. Placing them closer together than the 2-Watt grid in a '250 is what boosts the tube's "mu". But to leave enough space between the grid wires for the electrons to squeeze through, those grid wires don't have enough metal in them to dissipate any heat at all. I have seen them last a few weeks or a month in an AM amplifier, doubtless running the grid positive, and drawing grid-leak current. The power was impressive, but the tube life was short.

But if you can implement an ALC connection to a SSB radio, and keep the drive level limited, that tube will rock and roll.

Using it in a Pride will be risky, but the stock bias control shouldn't turn down far enough to get a proper zero-signal idle current. The one time I got talked into trying this, the bias zener voltage got cut by about two-thirds. Calls for 20 or 25 Volts, instead of the 50 to 60 Volts for a '250B, or 70 to 80 for a '250R.

Speaking of '250 tubes, the 250R takes a higher negative bias voltage to obtain the same idle current. Dropping a '250R in a Pride may cause the tube to run hot, unless the range of the bias control is stretched to feed another 15 or 30 Volts of negative bias to the grid circuit. For customers who want to use either type, we add an additional 20-Volt bais zener with a SPST switch across it. Open for the 'R, closed for a 'B. Made more sense than altering the bias control to "turn farther".

According to Eimac's description, the 8930 is a '250R but with a larger anode ring. That anode ring should be good for around 350 Watts, more or less. Using it in a Pride requires the same attention that a '250R does. Same tube. If the bias control won't turn the idle current low enough, it will run hot. Otherwise, it's an upgrade for ruggedness, mostly.

The so-called Russky "4CX400" tube is also known as a GS-36B. The actual type number uses characters not in the latin (english) alphabet, but that's what the guy http://stores.ebay.com/id=56152411&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:MESST on Ebay selling them for around 100 bucks calls it. The base is wired the same, and the heater voltage/current should be close enough to serve as a sub in the Pride. It shows the same kind of low drive-voltage sensitivity as the Eimac '350B, but has a 2-Watt grid rating, same as the 4CX250 tubes. It looks as if this tube will drop into a Pride so long as the bias voltage is altered, but I've never tried it. Might have hidden drawbacks, might not. Keep promising myself I'll buy one of them to try, next time I have a hundred bucks do just blow on a toy.

Alas, my Pride is waiting for me to design the prototype board for the low-voltage power supply. Got it cheap since boards were missing. Figured it would goose the incentive to finish the design for that board. Then life got busy.

On the other hand, if you get tired of your H.V. boards burning up, I DO have a solution that that little defect. Nomad Radio Heavy-Duty HV

Doesn't look like I'll be running out of that one any time soon.

73
 
Hello Nomadradio:

Ok good come back good technical data here.

Well the 4CX350A has been doing fine for around 3 years now on AM and SSB, in a Pride DX300. If I remember correctly I had to increase the bias voltage, maybe that is what has saved it.

But it seems to be working well and keeps on ticking. I have loaned it to several people for years now and it keeps on humming.

But the point I wanted to make was that I am looking for a older amplifier to remove the old "now expensive" sweep tubes and put in a pair of 4CX250B's or 8930 Tubes. Like a old D&A Maveric 250 or Pride that has caught fire too many times.

Yeah I know I will need a seperate power supply and different voltages and such. But I also want a viarable input attenuator, to adjust the amps drive.

I think having a old dog eared Maveric 250 there, that does a easy grand would not only warm the radio room up, but also the fond memories of days gone by.

This opens up thinking of what new amps or even older amps can be mofified using the cheaper, way more cleaner and better steel tubes.

In the big power wars I am but a weakie squicky bare foot mobile. Well.............

My 2 cents worth.

Jay in the Mojave
 
Hi Jay,
Can't say why that 4CX350 keeps on ticking. Just goes to show what you can get away with beyond what Eimac claims, sometimes. Sure don't recommend trying it, though. Makes me wonder if that tube wasn't made on a Wednesday. Could be that tube is just tougher than the 4CX350F/J versions we kept seeing blown out.

I've been playing around with a couple of old Dentron GLA-1000, a D&A PDX and an older Phantom.

Bigger tubes mean higher anode voltages. Old sweep-tube boxes that used a bridge rectifier suggest a couple of possibilities. In a Maverick, the choices would be to either put the two 650-Volt windings in series, and double the number of rectifiers/filters. The other would be to leave them in parallel and use a full-wave doubler circuit. Not sure which (if either) is better. Yet.

A power transformer that used a doubler circuit to feed sweep tubes in the first place is probably not useful for this kind of conversion.

Most important thing to check that I've found is to do an insulation-breakdown test on the transformer before doing this. Had a few of them start to leak at about 1500 Volts. Those would have cooked themselves pretty soon, if reworked that way. Other specimens have been okay up to 2500 Volts or more. Those would be safe and happy with either a bridge or a FW doubler.

There's a fairly cheap way to come up with screen and bias voltages, using a filament-type transformer as a step-up. Odds are that you'll have extra current capacity to spare on the existing 12.6-Volt 4-Amp windings on D&A transformers. The small split-bobbin transformers with dual 120/240 primaries will step that 12.6 back up to what's needed for grid/screen bias voltages needed for an external-anode tetrode. Jameco and Hosfelt both sell those, pretty sure. They tend to be cheaper than a transformer wound to deliver those voltages from a 120-Volt primary. Current drain for those two supply voltages are pretty low, so this trick works pretty well.

I'm curious to see what kind of power gain I get out of the small 350-Watt russky ceramic triodes. Scored a GI-6B for 25 bucks on Ebay. Seems to be about the same as the GI-7b that a couple of Ebay sources sell for that or a little more.

Biggest obstacle for wire-heads that aren't machinists is the socket. Or lack of any. All the russky ceramic triodes have "coaxial" bases, for which no commercial sockets are made. Current plan is to use a 35mm capacitor mount clamp, a broomstick clip from the hardware store and plate-cap clip on this tube. Not exactly a "socket", but at least the capacitor clamp will hold it down securely. The other attractive feature of this tube is the enormously wide gap between the fins on the anode radiator. Should be possible to use a blade fan to pressurize the tube compartment, and still get decent airflow without a centrifugal blower. Nearly all the tetrode types have the radiator fins so close that a blower is needed to overcome the back pressure they create.

The one drawback I see on the horizon is that all of these tubes use an indirectly-heated oxide-coated cathode. Enforcing warmup time will matter, and putting a "trip-out" limit on grid current will probably be wise for AM use. Been reading up on ways to protect control and screen grids. I'm still trying to sort out who's right about some of that stuff. Finding a lot of apparent contradictions from one tutorial to another. Somewhere out there somebody needs to work out the "sweet spot" between performance and reliability on these tubes.

Got a notion that my Pride HV board may get popular to do this trick, if I ever get any data posted on it's 'hidden' features. I included a hole in the board at the middle of the string of 6 filter caps. Hooking one side of the transformer there, and the other to one "AC" leg of the bridge rectifier provides a full-wave doubler. With one or more D&A transformers feeding it, should yield just under 2000 Volts DC. I'll be sure to circulate some pics once I get a chance to try it. 2000 Volts is well below the limit for most of the small russky ceramic tubes, but should be high enough to get reasonable power out of them.

So many irresistible ideas, so little time.

73
 
Hello Nomadradio:

Again thanks for all the great info and advice.

With the newer bigger tubes I was planning on new transformers and voltage regulator boards, and Vacuum Variable Tuning Capacitors. Biting the bullet sort of. But keeping the original stock look. If possible.

I may need your high voltage board, maybe a couple.

Steve the Machinist i work with is removing and replacing the Pride original fan, with a larger one of course to keep his 8930 colled down. He will send photos and I will post them. Steve suggests that the locating the amp on the top surface rather than on a shelf underneth the main radio desk top will make for a quieter fan noise.

I have a old D&A Maveric 250 box that has flater than flat tubes that, is in great looking shape. I may try a set of 4CX400 or 8930 tubes. So scratching my head some more and looking around. I was looking at Toms Tube web site for regulator boards, and a good price on the 4CX400 Tubes and sockets.
http://www.tomstubes.com/

I was also looking at a Commander 1250, that uses a single 3CX800A7 in grounded grid. Installing a pair of 4CX800 tubes in that, so that a low drive could make it bark at around 2 grand or more out PEP.

I wish I could say from knowing why the 4CX350A keeps on ticking, but it does. And it has been used for AM and SSB. It was new out of the box when I installed it.

Jay in the Mojave
 

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