What's up with this

[elect1mike]

Things job wise have not been going real good so when a lady came to me to ask if I have sold on ebay I said yea a lot so she said she had 2 estates that had ham gear to sell and wanted to check to see If I would sell the items for her on ebay I looked at the items which I estimated would sell for 5 thousand or so with no problem. She said well I will give you 1 item to sell and we can see if all works out you can sell the rest. I posted the radio and it sold no problem for more money than I had thought. The buyer is in Iraq so it was sent to a shipper in Houston TX. now comes the good part. I call the lady tell her it sold and for how much she was good with the price. I go to paypal to get the funds and they are froze until 20 days goes by. First time this has happened to me and I have sold lots on ebay with a 100% feedback. I call the lady and tell her funds are froze for 20 days and she calls me back to say this is unacceptable and she is using another source to sell the rest of the items. Ebay cost me 20% of 5 thousand plus I will never sell on ebay again.

 

[gamegetter]

Sounds like she is going to just sell the "rest" somewhere else, so you should be able to finish this transaction and pay everyone off, or did i misinterpret that.

some day's it just don't pay to help people out

 

[Wire Weasel]

Paypal places certain time restrictions on certain transactions and on certain members.

This is Paypal's doings not ebay.

When Paypal enacted these polices a couple of years ago they sent everyone out a notice. I got my notice. And you got yours whether or not you remember, or read them, and these temporary limitation polices are posted on their website.

So if you want to get mad at somebody....get mad at yourself for not being familiar with the rules of the game.

Sorry...just the way it is.

 

[jon666]

re

PayPalSucks.com FAQ, answering your questions about PayPal, the class action lawsuit, and other PayPal abuses, scams, spoof sites, phishing, etc. And sometimes, your hate mail.

 

[Mudfoot]

You must not sell as much as u think do.

Or... You would have known the rules.

Sent from my phone.

 

[pro151]

PayPalSucks.com FAQ, answering your questions about PayPal, the class action lawsuit, and other PayPal abuses, scams, spoof sites, phishing, etc. And sometimes, your hate mail.

Sophos Anti-virus said no to your link. It has something else wrapped up in it.

 

[mackmobile43]

Sophos Anti-virus said no to your link. It has something else wrapped up in it.

Frequently Asked Questions
(This is a big page. Be sure to scroll down to see it all.)

Do you have a sitemap for this site?
Sure do. Sitemap. (Be sure to read the sitemap. I've reorganized it to be easier to find stuff.)

What is PayPal's phone number?
Contact Information for PayPal: Be very careful about using numbers posted in forums on the net (and this includes ours.) There is a scam going on where criminals post THEIR phone number in a forum, saying it's Paypal's and then when you call, they answer it "Thank you for calling PayPal...." and get your login info, and boom, your account is cleaned out, or at least compromised. The numbers below have been verified and I feel confident presenting them here.

Their toll free number is (888) 221-1161 - personally verified by experience of the admin of this site.
Their NEW regular telephone number is: (650) 864-8000 - (verify)
An automated phone number is 402-935-7733 (verified by admin)
Another regular telephone number is: (402)935-2050 - (verify)
408 376 7400 fax: 408-376-7514 (Verified by Whois)
One of their fax numbers is: (402)537-5765 - (unverified, but probably good)
Another fax number is: (650)251-1101 - (verified via whois search)
The entire block of phone numbers from (402)935-2100 to (402)935-2299 seems to be all PayPal's. This list of PayPal phone numbers was created by a user of PayPalSucks.com.

PayPal UK is 08707 307 191 (UK national call rates apply)
PayPal UK FAX is 020 8605 3001. (verify by entering PayPal's registration number which is 226056.)

A Whois lookup on their domain shows: (This is supposed to be the legal address for process.)

Registrant:
PayPal Inc. (PAYPAL2-DOM)
2211 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95131
US

eBay Inc. hostmaster@ebay.com
2145 Hamilton Avenue
San Jose, CA 95125
US
408 376 7400
fax: 408-376-7514

PayPal UK shows:

Hotham House
1 Heron House
Richmond Upon Thames
Surrey
TW9 1EJ
GB

You can verify this info here. Just enter PayPal's registration number which is 226056.


One of PayPal's mailing addresses is:

PayPal
P.O. Box 45950
Omaha, NE 68145

The "official" PayPal corporate offices are now at ebay:

eBay Inc.
2145 Hamilton Avenue
San Jose, CA 95125
US

Their old corporate office was at:

303 Bryant Street
Mountain View, California 94041
(650) 864-8000 (Verified via SEC filings & reverse lookup.)

1840 Embarcadero Rd.
Palo Alto, CA 94303
US

(NEW) The Nebraska office is at:

12312 Port Grace
La Vista, NE 68128 - 8236
(402) 935-2050
Shown on the QwestDex page.

(OLD) The Nebraska office was at:

Paypal
11128 John Galt Boulevard
Omaha, NE 68137
(402) 935-2000
Shown on the QwestDex page.

PayPal froze my account, what do I do to get it unfrozen?
See PayPal Frozen Accounts Page.

I paid for an item using Paypal but I never recieved it (or I got defective merchandise, or merchandise that was different from advertised, or a box or rocks, whatever...) I tried to contact the seller, but they are a low-down-dirty-rotten-scoundrel and laughed at me. I asked Paypal to investigate. Paypal says, yes, it's the sellers fault, but there is no money in the scoundrels account. What can I do?
See PayPal Help.


I am a seller on ebay and have been using PayPal for a while. I just recently received a chargeback from one of my buyers and PayPal debited me over 500 dollars causing me to go negative 500 dollars. Is there anyway to dispute this now. I know they will send a letter from a credit agency if I dont pay them. Can I take them to small claims court?

As for taking anyone to court, yes, you can take the buyer to court. If you win there, that'd be plenty to get the credit card company to reverse the chargeback. Realize, Paypal is probably going to hound you for the money till you get a court order, and will freeze your account unless you pay them back first. :-(

Also see my NCO - Debt Collection article.

How do I contact the lawyers doing the class action lawsuit again PayPal?
Note: This class action lawsuit is, for the most part, settled. All deadlines have passed and we are just waiting for the checks to be sent. There is talk of starting a new one by many members of this site and others. Stay tuned... The original site is Girard Gibbs LLP - Consumer Class Action Lawyers, Securities Fraud Attorneys, Antitrust Attorneys & Employment Lawyers - California | New York Also see this thread for a recent news and the settlement website for more information. There are no other legitimate class action lawsuits against PayPal, although there are sites that suggest otherwise. Also the time has passed to put in a claim on this lawsuit.

Do you have copies of the Lawsuit Settlement FAQs?
Sure do. These are on our server, so they should always be available. PayPal Class Action Lawsuit Settlement FAQs, by Girard Gibbs & De Bartolomeo

Do you have copies of the Settlement Agreement?
Yes, sure do. These are also on our server. Here are the PDF files:
PayPal Lawsuit Settlement Agreement
PayPal Lawsuit Notice
PayPal Lawsuit Plan of Allocation
PayPal Lawsuit Summary Notice

Can I donate to this site?
This is a question we get asked everyday. Really, all we ask is that you tell others about the site. We ask that you use a PayPal alternative. (Even go back to checks and money orders.) If you want to donate to the site, just donate to your favorite charity in our name, or donate money to the tsunamis victims. Our purpose is to expose PayPal, not collect money from the victims of PayPal.

How do I close my PayPal account? Answer 1.
You'll have to log into your account first. Then click on "help," then "contact us" and then on the left click on "account basics," then "my profile," and the right bottom you'll see "How do I close my PayPal account?" We also recommend that you remove any checking and credit card accounts before you close your account, if you can. The problem is, Paypal keeps that information forever. But removing it shows your intent, and if the account gets hacked, it's less likely that the hacker will be able to access your accounts. However, we've been told by others that once you remove the information, you can't close the account. Like a catch-22. I don't know what the answer is if that is true. For me, it's better to just remove all info, including email accounts, create a yahoo or hotmail email account and use that, and then sending them a written certified letter with proof of delivery, that you want to close your account.

How do I close my PayPal account? Answer 2
A visitor to sent us this: I just read a lot on your site, and it did prompt me to close my PayPal account. I'd only opened it a couple days ago, but your site just reminded me that they could very well get hacked into, and my account could be at risk. I was afraid PayPal could withdraw funds without my consent, but it never occured to me that they were such a target for hacking. Anyway, I wanted to inform you that I was able to first remove my bank account by first logging in, then by selecting Profile Summary, then clicking Financial Information. They then loaded a page that had my account status and I was able to select to remove it there. Then, I hit 'back' to get to the Profile Summary page again and selected Close Account. After a few pages of clicking yes and providing a reason, I closed the account w/out the need for confirmation emails or anything. I just wanted you to know so that you could provide the information if you wanted. (Thanks M!)

What if I just stop using my PayPal account, am I still at risk?
In my opinion, yes. One of the biggest problems is the spoof emails. (Email that says "click here to update your PayPal info...") which takes you to a site that looks like PayPal, but is not, ie, a paypal spoof site. You put in your info, (login and password) they say thank you, then they run over to the real PayPal site and clean out your account (if any money is there) PLUS try to put in charges to your cc or bank accounts.

I recommend closing all checking and credit cards that have ever been associated with your PayPal account. The reason for this is: If a criminal uses a spoof site to access your account, Paypal will still try to take the money from you, because their position is "our security is perfect" and if someone logged into your account and spent money, they will say it was you, and try to take it out of your bank/cc account again. (ie, PayPal is forcing you to fund the criminals actions.)

The only safe thing is to close those accounts at the bank, and/or put in a stop order at the bank restricting PayPal from accessing your accounts.

Paypal said they will send my money after 180 days. Will they?
If your situation was "an honest mistake" like forgot password, minor created account but with permission of adult, etc. probably yes. If it's anything else, probably yes, but maybe no. If you are semi-legal or out right illegal, probably not. (We do not speak for PayPal. This information comes from the users of the forum and email from users of this site. It's general information only, and the specifics of your account will be the deciding factor.) Some have said they waited almost an entire year and did not get back their money. We don't know the details of the case, but are just repeating what others have told us.


What other service can I use to accept card cards if not PayPal?
See the Options Page. We also suggest going back to checks and money orders until you find a suitable alternative. If you do enough volume in sales, then a merchant account would be a better choice.


I only use Paypal to buy things. Am I at risk?
See the above regarding what happens if you send money to a scoundrel or accidently get caught by a spoofer. Also, Paypal has been hacked in the past and a frequent target of scammers and hackers. Your account could be hijacked and you won't know about it until it's too late. Start here for more detailed info.


I keep getting an error trying to log in to the forums:

'YOU have attempted to gain unauthorized access to the forum management system!'

Sorry about that. First thing to do is make sure you are not already logged in. Sometimes if you click the "login" button more than once, you'll get this error. Look at the first light colored box and if it says "Hello [your user name]" you are already logged in. If you are not, but stil get this error, try this: Clear your browsers cache, (On MSIE, it's "tools" "options" then under "temporary internet files" click on "delete." Then close all browser windows.) Then open MSIE again and goto PayPal Forums and first thing, click on "login." If you still get the same page, just hit refresh or reload a couple of times. Should be good to go after that. If not, then most likely you are behind a firewall or using a software filewall like Norton. You'll need to contact your firewall administrator to find a way around it.
By the way, is it just me, or is this forum really hard to navigate around? With a very long thread how does one go straight to the end?
When you log in, and click on one of the forum categories, for instance, the "NoPayPal: Horror Stories" forum, you'll see over on the left a list of topics. If the topic goes more than one page, you'll see (1,2,3...) Just click on the highest number and you'll go to the last page.

Also, you can set "your information" to show up to 50 posts at a time. Makes it faster to navigate through the posts.


How do you keep the domain "PayPalSucks.com?" Have they sent you threat letter?
See the Domain Name Dispute Page.

On the front page of this site, you said "According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws against unauthorized charges, and that you may not issue a chargeback for anything you purchase using your credit card and PayPal account that you are unsatisfied with." Can you please explain that?
See the Credit Card Waiver Page

Long question:I'm a new ebayer. Unfortunately my first encounter with PayPal was not a pleasant one. I just set up a new account with PayPal and sold an item for approx. $390.00. To my surprise I tried to pay my ebay account and found out that I have no sending limit because I'm not "authenticated". I contacted PayPal and was informed that there are two ways to become verified (credit card/checking) which I am not eligible for neither due to financial hardship. I was then informed that I couldn't do anything with the funds until I met verification requirements!! Then they told me to refund the gentleman who bought my item, but the item has been sent already!! The worst part of this whole scam is that if one of these two items are required for verification then why does PayPal allow new people to set up an account and collect funds, that the costumer can't access? Only they can reap the benefits of this transaction, because they have my money and the gentleman already received the product. I have contacted PayPal and ebay concerning the problem and have been unsuccessful at any and all attempts to resolve the problem!! I asked for the number to their head quarters to file a complaint and was denied. Is there any action that I can take to resolve this issue or am I just at the mercy of PayPal like the hundreds of other helpless victims with threads posted on this sight?

To me, the key point is that when you sign up they do not disclose such important information openly and clearly. I have read the current ToS and they are already in violation of it. It states "$500" they "may" require additional information. One of them is your Social Security Number. I know that requirement is in violation of the Privacy Act of 1974. But regardless, your amount is under $500, so they are not following their own ToS. But furthermore, clearly something like this needs to be out in the open (this layman's opinion) and for them not to disclose it, and then not follow their own ToS is a fraud. In addition, at the bottom of the ToS it states:

Additionally, you may report complaints to the Complaint Assistance
Unit of the Division of Consumer Services of the Department of Consumer
Affairs by contacting them in writing at 400 R Street, Sacramento,
California 95814, or by telephone at (800) 952-5210.
So if I were you, I'd be calling that number right now. I'd also recommend you contact your attorney general and write letters to the AG's in Calif. and Nebraska.

That's just my opinion.
Do you have suggestions on how to buy online safely?
Sure do. In fact, we get this question alot, so I created my How to protect yourself when making online purchases and avoid being ripped off page. ;-)

I heard PayPal's TOS was declared void. Do you have that decision?
Sure do. Click here for the Fogel Decision (Opens a PDF in a new window.)

Why do you hate PayPal?
We don't hate PayPal. (Okay, maybe a little...) We were one of their earliest users, and we "toughed it out" like everyone else during those days. We stayed loyal to PayPal during the outages; the crashes; even the ugly "orange on white/orange on gray" website. ;-). What we don't like is how they have treated us and others since those early years. We'd be very happy if PayPal would stop abusing people, start recognizing traditional banking laws, and get rid of the fee to transfer Paypal funds from user to user. (non-credit card funds.) We also don't like being hung up on when we call (a frequent occurance if you read the forums) and we don't like the stupid (and we do mean stupid) responses from their first level "customer service" representatives. Issues that could be solved in 5 minutes takes weeks, even months to be resolved. Also the automated email messages that have nothing to do with your questions are annoying too.

Then why are you trying to "bring them down?"
We are not trying to "bring them down." We want PayPal. We need them for our business. We loved the idea that the "little guy" could now compete with traditional businesses and big corporations. But here's the problem: You can't do business with a company that doesn't respect your rights. With PayPal, you never know what egg shell you might step on (ie, break one of their rules or undisclosed policies) that will explode in your face. (ie, get your account frozen) And you really have no appeals process.

Do you have copies of PayPal's old Terms of Service?
Sure do:
Paypal's Tos Jun 2000
Paypal's Tos Jun 2001
Paypal's Tos Oct 2001
Paypal's Tos Sept 2001
Paypal's Tos Jan 2002
Also see:




Be sure you have a lawyer go over every line, every time it's updated!
I've been ripped off by PayPal, what can I really do?
You have to become an activist. You are going to contact a lot of people and make a lot of noise. Here's one guys plan. At a very minimum, you need to write a letter to your state's attorney general, and the California and Nebraska attorneys general informing them of your problems with PayPal. You can find this information on the links page. Also see the sitemap.

How do I join the class action lawsuit?
The only legimimate lawsuit is now closed. If we find other legitimate suits that have been filed, we'll put their links here.

Has anyone actually won a law suit against PayPal?
Based on the email we get and at least one media report, yes. A man in California sued to have his account "unfrozen" and money returned. We don't have any more details than that. Others have emailed us stating that they hired an attorney and the attorney's original contact was enough to get their Paypal account in order.

Why are so many people angry at PayPal?
Read the forums.

Are you part of PayPal?
No, not even close. We have zero affiliation with PayPal. We don't work for them, we don't own any of their stock; they don't own any part of us. We are just users of their service like everyone else. Just users that a) got tired of their treatment and b) motivated enough to put up this site.

Do you own or work for a competitor?
No. We have links to other payment services, or merchant account providers, and recieve a small bonus if we send someone to them, just like we earned a small commission when we used to send people to PayPal. But we only put up links to sites we feel are responsive to their users and offer a good service.

Why did you put up this site?
Paypal hung up on me one too many times!

How can you help me resolve my problems with PayPal?
We provide information to help you resolve your problems with PayPal. We provide contact information that PayPal makes difficult to find. (top of this page) We also provide additional phone numbers and addresses that are not publically made available. We provide forums where you can talk to others who have been abused by PayPal and share ideas. We also provide media contacts here and here if you'd like to try and get your story out to an even bigger audience. We also provide information on how to contact government agencies and lawyers that may be able to assist you in your fight with PayPal.

How do you know that PayPal employees really come here?
Every webserver on the net maintains it's logs. In those logs is various information about you, your ISP, how you found this site and other information. For instance, your IP is: 208.84.57.135 . Clicking on your IP will tell you who "owns" your IP. Actually all this is done automatically for us via our log program and it simply shows who owns the IP in question and tabulates them. In addition we have been able to cross reference posters to this site back to AOL and Earthlink accounts. In fact, we can go even further and find the location of the origin for the user. Sometimes we have traced them back to Palo Alta or Omaha. (PayPal's central office and service center.)

How many times does PayPal come here?
On average, during the period 2001-2003, 0.6% of all our visitors are from a PayPal owned IP. Currently I don't care how many PayPal employees come here, I'm too busy to count them.

How does that compare? That doesn't sound very high.
AOL is the largest ISP in the world. They account for 3.3% of our visitors. (on average). Other large ISPs like ATT, IBM, RoadRunner, COX, etc are in the 0.5-3% range. Each of those has millions of users. PayPal has about 500 employees. So based on the numbers, PayPal users are 15,000% more likely to come to this site than the internet community at large.

Can't they "hide?"
Sure, and that's what makes the numbers very conservative.

What should I do?
We are not lawyers and we can't give legal advice. We recommend that people keep their PayPal balance as low as possible. Remove funds immediately. Also, use a second banking account for Paypal and as soon as those funds are in there, move it to your main account. Be prepared to stop using PayPal at any time. "Un-tangle" yourself from them. Yes, it's a huge hassle, we know! Their shopping cart and buy it now buttons are great times savers. Just realize if your account gets frozen, Paypal allows your customers to continue sending you money at the same time they stop you from withdrawing it. (This is almost certainly illegal. It's called "conversion" and is a crime in all 50 states. In addition, your customers will probably start complaining to you because they paid, but you didn't send their items.) You might not even be able to access your account to verify payment, change or remove your email addresses, or even deny payments. Now you are seeing the big problems with PayPal.

Where'd the News Page go?
Right here, but I'm not updating it anymore. Just read the Home page and forums for the latest news.

I have a question or comment not answered here. What should I do?
It's preferred that you post it in the forums but you can also contact us directly. Please note: if your question has been answered above, or on the sitemap/help page we will probably not reply, as we have no more information to give you. If you do write, for Pete's sake, PLEASE make sure your email address is correct if you expect a reply! About 15-20% of the email msgs we get either don't have an email address or one that is wrong and our answer bounces. (Also note: We cannot contact PayPal on your behalf to resolve your problems. This is something you'll need to do.)

PAYPAL SUCKS. CLICK HERE FOR OUR PAYPAL ALTERNATIVE

Credit Card Processing Alternatives To Paypal

 

[pro151]

Now that is funny right there. First Sophos blocks the link, then when Mack posts the contents of the link Google spam filter sends the notification to my spam box instead of my inbox.

 

[mackmobile43]

Now that is funny right there. First Sophos blocks the link, then when Mack posts the contents of the link Google spam filter sends the notification to my spam box instead of my inbox.

Sounds like you have a case of over active Sohpos brought on by Googleidus.

 

[pro151]

Sophos will sometimes come back with a false positive, but I consider it a small price to pay for all of the true attacks it has stopped.
Gmail was freaked out by all of the phone numbers in the body of the message.

Suits me when they both err on the side of caution, doesn't happen often.