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Beginner ham antenna questions

Here's what I'm considering to start:

The All Band HF Doublet - 80 thru 10 Meter Ladder Line Multiband Antenna

Two questions...is it too ambitious for a first antenna, and what kind of antenna tuner should I get to go 160-10? Or is that asking too much from this antenna, despite it's being descri9bed as an "all band" antenna?

Oooops...that was three questions...

1. Yes it is.
2. Better design needs no tuner
3. See answer 2

Build a Fan dipole, add the bands you want and it will not require a tuner.
 
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Here's what I'm considering to start:

The All Band HF Doublet - 80 thru 10 Meter Ladder Line Multiband Antenna

Two questions...is it too ambitious for a first antenna, and what kind of antenna tuner should I get to go 160-10? Or is that asking too much from this antenna, despite it's being descri9bed as an "all band" antenna?

Oooops...that was three questions...

That is my fav antenna. Cut it for the lowest band that can be fitted in your yard. Use a tuner with a 4:1 balun for the feedline and you will be good to go.
As far as a tuner, for your first the MFJ 949 series is good with a good price. Gigaparts has it on sale for 155.00, but you can get them used, just keep in mind the new price when shopping. If you do buy new, you will want to open it up and give a good QC check. MFJ does have a great warranty, just no QC.
Rich
 
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Multi band fan dipole, does not need an antenna tuner, build a resonant antenna and save the expense of an antenna tuner.


I tried the all band doublet and it does work, but with a fan dipole YOU control the direction of the pattern of the antenna, thus you can decide what part of the world you would like to make contacts to.

The all band doublet, is a dipole on the lowest frequency and as you move up the bands the doublet starts having lobes and nulls in the radiation pattern so the antenna controls where you make contacts to.

To me the best part of the hobby is playing with antennas. So build all you want make some contacts and see which best suits you.
 
1. Yes it is.
2. Better design needs no tuner
3. See answer 2

LOL...the doublet it too ambitious, but you suggest THAT!!??!...:D:D:D

Actually, it looks quite doable and I think I'll give it a try. The instructions are pretty clear and it doesn't look that hard. I do have a couple of questions not answered by the article:

1. You say no tuner needed. If I cut the wire to match the frequency in the center of a given band, don''t I need a tuner to reach the edges of that band?

2. A question regarding ALL antenna (and I feel dumb asking but...), I am assuming the wire is all uninsulated, bare wire, right?

3. How exact do the measurements have to be on the wire, and is it the total length of the wire, including any that doubles back on itself, like the connections to the eyebolts at the ugly balun? I'm assuming (there's that word again) you would thread some wire through the eye and double it back on itself and twist and solder. If you ran 6" through and doubled it back for that 6", is that 12" of wire or 6" of a larger guage wire? Also, it eats up a bit of wire using a dogbone...count all of it, or just the distance to the dogbone itself?

4. Height. This doesn't look like it would be well suited to tree installation...too many wires that would have to not be touching branches, wind blowing branches and the tree itself around, etc...and towers cost money I cannot afford right now. Perhaps later (with the right deal I'd like to eventually have a 75-100 ft tower) but for now a tower is a no-go.

The best I can do right now is getting up about 30 ft. That's a 12 ft 6x6 with a 12 ft 4x4 lag screwed to it with a 1 ft overlap for 3 lag screws, with a 12 ft section of galvanized tubing (think chain-link fence post type tubing), again with a 1 ft overlap with the 4x4 and again lag screwed to the 4x4 (alternative inexpensive mast ideas welcome), which puts the base of whatever goes on top of that about 30 ft off the ground.

If I had the posts for the radials each consisting of a 12 ft 4x4 and 12 ft tubing (the top 2/3 of the center mast) and mounted it so the top of the ugly balun was even with the top of the center post and the radials were attached (with dogbones) to the top half of the radial posts, would that be enough height?

5. The article isn't clear...all the radials connect to the same copper strip on that side of the ugly balun with the eyebolts, right? I then use a short piece of 10-12 gauge wire soldered to each copper strip to bring the copper strips together and solder both of them to the center conductor of the coax, right?

6. Coax. Is RG-58 sufficient, or do I need to use RG-8...and what is considered to be a long run of coax back to the radio? What should my maximum length of coax be? I have 2 1/2 acres to choose my antenna spot and don't want it too far from the radio.

7. I'm assuming I can add more appropriate length radials to reach more bands? Not that I would (and I know I'd need more radial post length to do it) but I could have radials for 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, and 160 all on one antenna, right?

8.Last...how effective is this antenna, if built right? Is this the first of many, or is this (plus my A-99 for 11 meter mounted on the very top, or could I have an 11 meter radial as well?) all the antenna I'll ever need?

I'll think of more questions. If I don't, I'm sure y'all's answers will generate some.

Thanks.
 
I tried the all band doublet and it does work, but with a fan dipole YOU control the direction of the pattern of the antenna, thus you can decide what part of the world you would like to make contacts to.

Ah ha!!! Another question already...since this isn't a turnable antenna, which direction do I want to orient the radials? Or (don't laugh...at least I'm thinking...maybe thinking wrong, but thinking) can I have another set of radials on the same antenna oriented 90 degrees from the first ones?

If so...4 strips of copper in the ugly balun, all connected to a single coax conductor? Two original strips connected to one side of ladder wire and the two additional copper strips connected to the other side of the ladder wire, and brought together at the radio end of the ladder with into a short length of coax?

Or just do it like the article and quit trying to out think myself?
 
LOL...the doublet it too ambitious, but you suggest THAT!!??!...:D:D:D

Actually, it looks quite doable and I think I'll give it a try. The instructions are pretty clear and it doesn't look that hard. I do have a couple of questions not answered by the article:

1. You say no tuner needed. If I cut the wire to match the frequency in the center of a given band, don''t I need a tuner to reach the edges of that band?

2. A question regarding ALL antenna (and I feel dumb asking but...), I am assuming the wire is all uninsulated, bare wire, right?

3. How exact do the measurements have to be on the wire, and is it the total length of the wire, including any that doubles back on itself, like the connections to the eyebolts at the ugly balun? I'm assuming (there's that word again) you would thread some wire through the eye and double it back on itself and twist and solder. If you ran 6" through and doubled it back for that 6", is that 12" of wire or 6" of a larger guage wire? Also, it eats up a bit of wire using a dogbone...count all of it, or just the distance to the dogbone itself?

4. Height. This doesn't look like it would be well suited to tree installation...too many wires that would have to not be touching branches, wind blowing branches and the tree itself around, etc...and towers cost money I cannot afford right now. Perhaps later (with the right deal I'd like to eventually have a 75-100 ft tower) but for now a tower is a no-go.

The best I can do right now is getting up about 30 ft. That's a 12 ft 6x6 with a 12 ft 4x4 lag screwed to it with a 1 ft overlap for 3 lag screws, with a 12 ft section of galvanized tubing (think chain-link fence post type tubing), again with a 1 ft overlap with the 4x4 and again lag screwed to the 4x4 (alternative inexpensive mast ideas welcome), which puts the base of whatever goes on top of that about 30 ft off the ground.

If I had the posts for the radials each consisting of a 12 ft 4x4 and 12 ft tubing (the top 2/3 of the center mast) and mounted it so the top of the ugly balun was even with the top of the center post and the radials were attached (with dogbones) to the top half of the radial posts, would that be enough height?

5. The article isn't clear...all the radials connect to the same copper strip on that side of the ugly balun with the eyebolts, right? I then use a short piece of 10-12 gauge wire soldered to each copper strip to bring the copper strips together and solder both of them to the center conductor of the coax, right?

6. Coax. Is RG-58 sufficient, or do I need to use RG-8...and what is considered to be a long run of coax back to the radio? What should my maximum length of coax be? I have 2 1/2 acres to choose my antenna spot and don't want it too far from the radio.

7. I'm assuming I can add more appropriate length radials to reach more bands? Not that I would (and I know I'd need more radial post length to do it) but I could have radials for 10, 20, 40, 60, 80, and 160 all on one antenna, right?

8.Last...how effective is this antenna, if built right? Is this the first of many, or is this (plus my A-99 for 11 meter mounted on the very top, or could I have an 11 meter radial as well?) all the antenna I'll ever need?

I'll think of more questions. If I don't, I'm sure y'all's answers will generate some.

Thanks.

1. Yes (mostly) - 10 meters might require a tuner for the high end.
2. Either works but I user insulated stranded.
3. 468/F = total length. Cut about a foot longer to cover the twists and wire interaction.
4. This works fine on a tree, mine does. Make PVC standoffs about 6" long to go between the wires. Mine is only about 20 feet up
5. Yes all the wire attach the same points. The signal will find the correct wire.
6. RG-58 is fine up to 100 feet and if you are going to run 100 watts or less.
7. Yes. Right now mine is setup for 17, 20 and 40 but I will probably add 10 and 12 sometime. BTW 15 meters will load up on a 40 meter wire just fine.
8. The Dipole is the standard antenna. It will perform well, just last night I worked Hamburg Germany on 20 meters off mine with 100 watts. Yes you could add a 11 meter one if you wanted to.
 
Another question...do the radials on the each side for a given band have to be precisely symmetrical, or can they fan down at slightly different angles, and if so, how different?

You drop them all down at or near 45 degrees. Doing this will create a fairly omindirectional antenna.
 
Ah ha!!! Another question already...since this isn't a turnable antenna, which direction do I want to orient the radials? Or (don't laugh...at least I'm thinking...maybe thinking wrong, but thinking) can I have another set of radials on the same antenna oriented 90 degrees from the first ones?

If so...4 strips of copper in the ugly balun, all connected to a single coax conductor? Two original strips connected to one side of ladder wire and the two additional copper strips connected to the other side of the ladder wire, and brought together at the radio end of the ladder with into a short length of coax?

Or just do it like the article and quit trying to out think myself?

With the radials dropped at 45 degrees the antenna will be fairly omindirectional... wait I said that already.
 
Thanks!

A last question...for the night. I'll dream up more while I'm sleeping...

The wire...other than stranded wire, is there anyrthing "special" about antenna wire, or is it just plain ol' stranded copper wire of the appropriate guage...nothing special, just buy the least expensive I can find?

I assume (gotta stop using that word) the same guage for all bands? 12? 14?
 
Thanks!

A last question...for the night. I'll dream up more while I'm sleeping...

The wire...other than stranded wire, is there anyrthing "special" about antenna wire, or is it just plain ol' stranded copper wire of the appropriate guage...nothing special, just buy the least expensive I can find?

I assume (gotta stop using that word) the same guage for all bands? 12? 14?
I use 14 gauge stranded insulated wire I get from Menards.
 
Yep #12 or #14awg stranded wire from Home Depot or any electrical shop will work just fine. Buy a roll of it and start making antennas. Not very hard at all. It's a lot of fun and the satisfaction knowing you built it is well worth it. JMO. Listen to these guys as they know what they speak of. Might not be sugar coated, but it is the truth!! Don't let anyone get to you. They are trying to help and are a very knowledgable group. JMO. God bless.
 
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Thanks!

A last question...for the night. I'll dream up more while I'm sleeping...

The wire...other than stranded wire, is there anyrthing "special" about antenna wire, or is it just plain ol' stranded copper wire of the appropriate guage...nothing special, just buy the least expensive I can find?

I assume (gotta stop using that word) the same guage for all bands? 12? 14?

BH: I know this Electrician:D You tell me where to send it, I'll get you the wire you need!
Pass your test Monday!
All the Best
Gary
 
If you want play around different antennas without going broke, use steel electric fence wire. Then once you decide what you like best, make one out of copper.
Rich
 

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