horizontal quad,now need vertical?

[johnny9]

hi,as a few here no i have a 2 element homemade quad antenna..best thing i ever did for sure!
i set it up in diamond shape and its fed from the bottom tip for the flat side.i used dx engineering rg11 iirc, 75 ohm to match it and works great.
i need vertical now..astroplane dont work well below the quad..swr,s to high that way.
can i put another full wave wire 1 inch away/beside my driven wire on the quad and feed it on the side for vertical? ive read thigs about it working but never talked to anyone doing this so not sure?
in my mind it would be fine since i would only be talking on one at a time..but,my antenna switch has a setting to where i can use vert and horizontal at the same time so if thats feasable i can do that too..

any help appreciated.john

 

[wavrider]

IF it was me I would mount the astro plane on a separate mount some where.



Here is a hygain instructions for a dual polarity yagi.



http://www.cbtricks.com/ant_manuals/hygain/model_414/graphics/hy-gain_414_big_gun_2.pdf

 

[johnny9]

oh i will always keep and use the astroplane till death do us part..but the quads recieve is always 3 s units better so vertical on the quad would be sweet..thanks for the link,going there now.

 

[vkrules]

I think there would be to much interaction between the two loops for it to work. Might be better to switch it with coax relays. All for you trying it and letting us know though.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

The dual loops of the Hygain quad did work fairly well. I helped a friend put one together back in high school....holy crap that was a long while ago. Probably used stone tools to do it.....anyway his two element quad worked great with the dual loops for the driver element. IIRC the loops were spaced about 4-5 inches apart.

 

[johnny9]

darned if ya do,darned if ya dont..i would have thought opposite,to keep the spacing closer..not sure if that lil would matter tho.

i also read somewhere they used the same wire and 2 feed points..it said the seperation didnt bother the full wave..but others didnt like the idea.so i kinda left that idea also..
maybe i should get a wire ready for when i install the rotor soon,and install the vertical element to see for myself..sounds like a plan.
since the reflector is bigger/longer ,and was cut for ch 40 maybe i should cut the vertical for ch 20 so all the wires will be a cooter hair more away from each others path..that make sense lol:bdh:

 

[johnny9]

i think this is for 2 meter but ive read this can work..looks scetchy to me.
opinions?
Cubical Quad with Dual Feedlines for Multiple Polarizations

 

[wavrider]

i think this is for 2 meter but ive read this can work..looks scetchy to me.
opinions?
Cubical Quad with Dual Feedlines for Multiple Polarizations

IT may work as one side of the quad as it is fed at point A to point D is 1/4 wl electrically. From point A to point B,C,D is 3/4 WL electrically thus a 3/4 wl presents the same impedance as a 1/4 wl so it should present a decent impedance.

I do not know how the pattern will look, may be skewed as or it may work great.

Experiment and find out.

 

[johnny9]

does it make sense that they say even tho the wire is cut it still gets full wave signal? thats what im no grasping in my hard head..

maybe i need a poll lol..should i try another wire 1 inch in front of existing wire.and keep 2 full wave length elements which i think wouldnt bother each other since talking on one at a time,and i already have the matching section figured out since i have the rg11 already.

or shoud i cut the corner and add coax to the same wire? if i do this i think i will still need another rg11 piece"which i have" to match everything like i have now.

now im confusing myself..i wonder if the rg11 i have to match the coax will still be ok with cutting the wire and having 2 matching systems..

whhoooo..maybe i better think some more..maybe adding a wire will be smarter for a first try than cutting my element:headbang

 

[wavrider]

does it make sense that they say even tho the wire is cut it still gets full wave signal?

No, it will have the same impedance as a 1/2 wl dipole, probably will not need the 1/4 wl matching stub.

Spacing from the reflector will figure into the input impedance of the two element antenna.

It basically becomes a Quagi. 1/2 wl driven element with a full wave length reflector.

 

[johnny9]

that idea is def out then..i dont wanna go down in size from my full wl..that would be defeating the purpose i feel..

the other idea it is may be a lil while but will post back here when i do it.

 

[wavrider]

Yagi vs. Quad, October 1966 QST - RF Cafe

Here you go good reading on yagi vs quad
if you want both horizontal and vertical I would go with a yagi instead of a quad for ease of construction.

 

[johnny9]

good reading,thanks..i like the quad and am hooked on it..i will still have the a.plane and using it now for vertical..just dont talk on it since the swr,s are high
with it on the side of the tower like it is..i could prob leave it and get a antenna tuner..maybe i just need to build another quad for vertical

i could just get a rotor that mounts horizontal for turning it to vertical but id want the rotor to have a complete thru hole..maybe i should look into how to do this for cheap,or if poss.seems like ive seen one before somewhere..time to search now

 

[wavrider]

I like a quad also, got a two element built up and ready to install, now just need to find the time ti put up another tower to put it on.


I install mine vertical polarized, and use a co phased delta loop for horizontal dx on 10 meters. ( works on 11 also).




Delta Loop for HF

 

[johnny9]

yeah,go ahead and get me started on more antennas lol..i like that,simple looking..i have a new 11 meter dipole,maybe i will add length to it and try out the 10 meter band//
i been wanting to get a 10 an 12 meer antenna going anyhow,just to listen in and if i get hooked i will get a ticket..

im sure i cant hang any of these dipoles off my tower,under the quad tho right..

i guess i will keep my quad dedicated as is for now..i may turn it in the bracket next time i have it down to see how vertical is on it a few weeks..i seem to pick up everyone great on the flat side,but there are times when the astro plane picks up some better..guess cause there on the vertical side..livin and learning as always,,j9