KL200P SSB Relay Clicking

[ZuMBLe]

This is probably more of a radio question than a amp question but it's related to the amp. When I adjust my Galaxy 979 to minimum carrier on SSB, my amp just clicks and the SWR light on my radio flickers. Something is wrong with the radio because the amp works fine with other radios on SSB with proper carrier/swing. Any idea what the issue is? Thanks.

Noticed this was actually in the amateur radio forum. Sorry!

 

[sp5it]

Too low drive to switch on the amp.
Raise carrier or change RF VOX parameters in your amp to be more sensitive.
R8 value.
Mike

 

[9C1Driver]

SSB does not have a carrier (dead key) like AM does. Thats why you need a delay when you talk SSB so the relay stays open for a second er two. SSB power is all modulated wattage, when your not talking there is no wattage hence the relay will click because there is nothing to hold it open. Just run 12-18 watts PEP on SSB into it and be done, as long as your speaking the relay will hold.

 

[ZuMBLe]

So the clicking when not talking is okay? I wasn't sure because the SWR light on the radio was going crazy.

SSB does not have a carrier (dead key) like AM does. Thats why you need a delay when you talk SSB so the relay stays open for a second er two. SSB power is all modulated wattage, when your not talking there is no wattage hence the relay will click because there is nothing to hold it open. Just run 12-18 watts PEP on SSB into it and be done, as long as your speaking the relay will hold.

 

[AudioShockwav]

There should be no power output on SSB if you are not talking.
Try reducing the Mic Gain, if the Mic is picking up back ground noise, it may be bumping the amp slightly, just enough to cause the Amp to start to key up, and then drop the relays.
I suspect that is what is happening.
As soon as you start talking the power output from the radio should swing up, and there should be enough delay on the relay to keep it closed in between words unless there is a long pause.
On AM, even when you are not talking the radio is transmitting a carrier, and that will keep the relays closed.

Does it have a switch labeled AM/FM--SSB ?

73
Jeff

 

[CTStallion]

There should be no power output on SSB if you are not talking.
Try reducing the Mic Gain, if the Mic is picking up back ground noise, it may be bumping the amp slightly, just enough to cause the Amp to start to key up, and then drop the relays.
I suspect that is what is happening.
As soon as you start talking the power output from the radio should swing up, and there should be enough delay on the relay to keep it closed in between words unless there is a long pause.
On AM, even when you are not talking the radio is transmitting a carrier, and that will keep the relays closed.
What kind of Amp is it?
Does it have a switch labeled AM/FM--SSB ?

73
Jeff

Yup, or (possibly?) a bad delay capacitor in the amp, although you indicate that your other SSB rigs work fine. Maybe the carrier null adjustment in the other rigs is NOT adjusted properly and is maintaining the relay in the energized position, but the 979 may be properly nulled. Why the SWR alert feature is activated on LOW power on the 979 is beyond me, unless there is an SWR mismatch between the amp and the Galaxy. Perhaps the newer 979's reduce power output under a mismatch, and if so, then the output power of the 979 is not sufficient to pull in the relay. Like AudioShockWav is saying, make sure you switch your amp into the SSB position.

 

[ZuMBLe]

I'll try turning off the mic gain to see if that changes anything. The amp does have a SSB switch and it is turned on. Should I put a SWR meter between the amp and the galaxy? My Cobra 148 has no problems, nor does my 2510. Oh, it also doesn't do this on USB, only LSB. The radio sounds great on USB and LSB without the amp on.

Yup, or (possibly?) a bad delay capacitor in the amp, although you indicate that your other SSB rigs work fine. Maybe the carrier null adjustment in the other rigs is NOT adjusted properly and is maintaining the relay in the energized position, but the 979 may be properly nulled. Why the SWR alert feature is activated on LOW power on the 979 is beyond me, unless there is an SWR mismatch between the amp and the Galaxy. Perhaps the newer 979's reduce power output under a mismatch, and if so, then the output power of the 979 is not sufficient to pull in the relay. Like AudioShockWav is saying, make sure you switch your amp into the SSB position.

 

[CTStallion]

I'll try turning off the mic gain to see if that changes anything. The amp does have a SSB switch and it is turned on. Should I put a SWR meter between the amp and the galaxy? My Cobra 148 has no problems, nor does my 2510. Oh, it also doesn't do this on USB, only LSB. The radio sounds great on USB and LSB without the amp on.

Actually on the 979 turn UP the mic gain and see if that still does it. Yes, you could try an SWR meter between the two, but it really will only indicate accurately on AM. Also, try changing the length of the coax jumper between the 979 and the amp, or ferrite beads (common mode chokes) over the coax between the 979 and the amp. (They still sell the 'snap on' ones at Radio Shack.)

Lastly, you should ensure that the amplifier and the radio are using DIFFERENT power supplies (to avoid RF currents running down the power cords.)

If none of that works, then I'm completely stumped.

 

[ZuMBLe]

My radio and power supply technically aren't on separate power supplies. :headbang I have a Astron 12A and a Astron 20A tied together, I run the radio and the amp off them. I'll try disconnecting them also! Thanks! Live and learn!

Thanks everyone for being so helpful. I should be able to fiddle with all this tomorrow night.

Actually on the 979 turn UP the mic gain and see if that still does it. Yes, you could try an SWR meter between the two, but it really will only indicate accurately on AM. Also, try changing the length of the coax jumper between the 979 and the amp, or ferrite beads (common mode chokes) over the coax between the 979 and the amp. (They still sell the 'snap on' ones at Radio Shack.)

Lastly, you should ensure that the amplifier and the radio are using DIFFERENT power supplies (to avoid RF currents running down the power cords.)

If none of that works, then I'm completely stumped.

 

[ZuMBLe]

I was still getting the problem after I got the AM carrier turned off on the radio. It turns out it is partially audio related. It still clicks when using a power mic but fun when using the RK56.

 

[9C1Driver]

I was still getting the problem after I got the AM carrier turned off on the radio. It turns out it is partially audio related. It still clicks when using a power mic but fun when using the RK56.

Can you explain this better? How and why would you "turn the AM carrier off" on a radio?

The watt meter goes between the amp and antenna.

With your Galaxy 979 and that amp you will need at least a 1-2 watt AM dead key. To get a dead key reading back the mic gain down so room noise will not be picked up by the mic.

The Peak wattage should be around 18-25 watts on both AM and SSB. If your radio has no carrier on AM then it is mis-tuned and needs to be done correctly.

 

[ZuMBLe]

Sorry I wasn't clear. The amp works fine on AM, it's sideband that it has clicking problems. I set the minimum wattage to 1 watt DK on am and 6 watts on max. Before, I got rid of the clicking problem by turning VR6 which increased the wattage in SSB to keep the amp on when the ptt was held down but no audio. Doing this resulted in a "carrier" when just holding down the PTT on SSB with no audio.

Can you explain this better? How and why would you "turn the AM carrier off" on a radio?

The watt meter goes between the amp and antenna.

With your Galaxy 979 and that amp you will need at least a 1-2 watt AM dead key. To get a dead key reading back the mic gain down so room noise will not be picked up by the mic.

The Peak wattage should be around 18-25 watts on both AM and SSB. If your radio has no carrier on AM then it is mis-tuned and needs to be done correctly.

 

[9C1Driver]

Lets try this again. THERE IS NO CARRIER ON SSB. When you key the mic on SSB you get no wattage until you speak. The mic will pic up room noise which you can see on a watt meter and it appears as a small carrier. It's not enough to hold the relay open so the amp goes click click click. If your on SSB mode and you key the mic just talk. The click click click problem will go away. When your done talking un-key the mic or guess what.......... the relay will try to release and you will hear a click click click all over again.


Galaxy Radios DX979 Service Manual

You need to stop messing with VR-6 it's not the SSB power adjustment. VR-13 is the SSB ALC. If you are getting a small carrier on SSB then VR-6 is mistuned.

 

[AudioShockwav]

9C1 is correct, VR6 Is the SSB[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Carrier Balance this should be adjusted until you have no carrier on LSB and USB modes.....there should be no carrier on upper or lower sideband....there should be NO reading or power output until you start to talk.
If you are not sure how to tune or adjust the VR`s in a radio, you can do more harm than good.


73
Jeff
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[ZuMBLe]

It seems the carrier balance was off from the factory then. After many slow fine adjustments to VR6, the problem seems mostly gone when using the radio with a noise canceling mic.

I don't mind if I do more harm than good to the 979. =) I'm learning and it's fun. I wouldn't attempt this on my 2510.

9C1 is correct, VR6 Is the SSB[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Carrier Balance this should be adjusted until you have no carrier on LSB and USB modes.....there should be no carrier on upper or lower sideband....there should be NO reading or power output until you start to talk.
If you are not sure how to tune or adjust the VR`s in a radio, you can do more harm than good.


73
Jeff
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