Base New V4K vs Conventional J-Pole

[HomerBB]

Okay.
Since you answered your question can you draw me a picture?

The model I shared is in line with previously posted models that exhibited 4 x 1/4ƛ horizontal radials, not adding more ribs. So my post stands as stated, the ribs are not radials in the "traditional sense". They may functionally be so, but the thread began as a discussion of rf patterns being similar between a J-Pole and the V4k. In comment #7 it took a turn toward the discussion of radials. It then centered itself on the premise of whether the S4/V4k type antenna either fell apart or benefited from radial. By the time I shared the model in post #23 the thread had firmly self identified the context for "adding radials" to be the "traditional radial" style, as I called them.
I really don't know why you want to challenge my contribution. It is in line with the thread. Your challenge to me is not. It may be accepted as a contribution if so stated,, and to that end I will assist you.

"Folks, freecell seems to be saying that the addition of radials is not necessary because the V4k already has radials, ie, the cone/basket/cage."

That would appear to be contradictory to the alleged assertion that with radials the V4k falls apart. It has them, and it doesn't fall apart. Adding more metal below the already complete design does screw it up, whether horizontal radials or a metal building. And this is what my post was intended to support.

 

[freecell]

"Folks, freecell seems to be saying that the addition of radials is not necessary because the V4k already has radials, ie, the cone/basket/cage."

Feel free to point out just exactly where i said that. what you refer to as "ribs" in the v4k ARE radials as defined previously. your question has been answered.

 

[HomerBB]

I missed it in this thread. I went back over every post in this thread... but no matter, I cleared it up for you.

 

[Shockwave]

Nine posts later and it still is not clear in which way Homer has not connected the radials properly...

 

[Marconi]

Let me try and clear up some thinking about that old model I did back in early 2014, regarding Henry published report on the "The Avanti Sigma 4", and his comments on page #41, about adding radial to the S4, including a picture and a graph of his results, which my models here disagrees with. However, back at the time I missed the condition note by Henry, talking about end feeding directly, eliminating the gamma on the S4. I think I remember trying that, but I just don't remember my results for sure.

See the link to Henry HPSD report. You guys that haven't read it...you may find it interesting and informative...IMO.

https://cb-antennas.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Sigma-IV-1.01-Jan-2015.pdf

I can't remember why I left the mast out of that model, I often add the mast and isolate them from the antenna, just trying and get the best performance. I indicate in the title of my model the features used and whether they are included = "w", or not = "n" in the model. I use other codes to be brief, because I only can enter 24 characters in the title field.

That said this model on suggest currents, if I added a feed line to the model it would add another path for currents to flow, again what Free Cell is suggesting.

I hope you guys can see when we talk about several aspects in antennas, it is easy to type the words, but sometimes the meaning gets lost. I for sure have trouble keeping up with a model that addresses all the specific being discussed here. I think everybody sees modeling can get complicated if one makes the effort to address all of those different ideas at once, the words increase and the understanding is made more difficult to follow.

Models in the PDF files below:
1. in addition to what I planed to post here in my response, showing the idea for the Vector with radials like we find noted in Henry's report (see link) above with overlays to compare. The gain is the only point I was trying to make with this model, and maybe I just forgot to add the mast...who knows? Bob, asked me to try the idea.

2. here I post a model with the mast directly attached to the NV4K. We can see the currents on the mast (red line) that Free Cell says are missing...and he is right., Without a mast attached to the antenna we will be missing some details about that antenna being in the real world. Plus in this case even if I included the mast and fixed the currents noted, in the real world when we add the coax that provides another path for currents to flow.

I think this is the point that Free Cell was making here, and if he had said every thing he wanted to say...folks would be fussing. I think Free Cell has been pretty civil, though brief and for good cause IMO...I just talked about the same problems with modeling above.

If you have any questions, just ask.