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Uniden PC122, low AM modulation

kp3ft

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Aug 27, 2020
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Hi all,

I received an unmodified PC122 that was still in the box, never used. SSB shows full 12 watts, but AM very little swing, almost unnoticable. I adjusted the AM carrier down to 2 watts and varied the AMC pot, but still almost no "swing". I found a couple mods online which might help (the "Jumper J5" and "R151" mods), but thought I'd ask on this forum first, in case anyone else has had this issue and fixed it. Thanks
 

Hi all,

I received an unmodified PC122 that was still in the box, never used. SSB shows full 12 watts, but AM very little swing, almost unnoticable. I adjusted the AM carrier down to 2 watts and varied the AMC pot, but still almost no "swing". I found a couple mods online which might help (the "Jumper J5" and "R151" mods), but thought I'd ask on this forum first, in case anyone else has had this issue and fixed it. Thanks

Actually, I forgot, it's a TRC-465 which I think is virtually identical to the PC-122. I did do Handy Andy's version of the clarifier mod which is fabulous! Way back in the day, I unlocked a different PC122's clarifier, and the method was more complex just to keep the clarifier centered. Handy Andy's is far easier and keeps the clarifier centered. Also, the low AM modulation issue was there when the radio was stock, before I did the clarifier mod.
 
Hi!

I guess I'm being "paged"

What's this with the "Swing"?

When the radio is turned down, you do not always recover the swing - the R151 effort helps with this but Swing is actually from further upstream.

It deals with Pre-driver and a Band Pass Filter section used before it arrives to the 1973SSB Pre-Driver.

Along with other issues...

The TRC-465 and the PC-122 are nearly identical put pay attention to the Board numbering - for there are small subtle changes between both boards..

DETERMIN.GIF
Locate C180 - did you find it?

I'll help - foe between these two boards is partly why you're experiencing "tight" carrier to Modulation effects.

upload_2021-2-22_18-8-17.png

There are subtle changes in Cap values where the ORANGE/AMBER arrow point to the Pre-driver and part of it's Band Pass section...

I'll let you get comfortable for this could get intense...
 
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Hi Andy,

Thanks for your help. This version of the board doesn't have C202, R202, or D49. C180 is also missing, but the the board shows the silkscreen symbol for it. I attached a screenshot of it. There's no caps, diodes, etc. in that area on the underside of the board. The only number I could find on the board is TJE-018HB, which I Googled but didn't get much back.board1.png
 
Strange... the TRC-465 service manual shows C180 and an additional cap on the underside of the board in that area. Mine has neither.
board2.png board3.png
 
Thanks for that pic, to the bottom of the photo is the Band Pass Filter and Predriver - so note the yellow and violet capped capacitors - they are the NPO's of that input side of the Predriver.

When you have little swing, it may indicate a tune up is needed but also to remember the Harmonics play a role in this - as you work thru this you'll see where the Carrier power isn't the problem, its' the Drive and Coupling errors (admittance issues) between the stages that cause most of these problems.

You're missing a 180pF cap that would be installed across Collector Emitter (After) of the PC-122 in the 456 it's 47pF - its' across the Base to Emitter - (Before)

So you know, you may need to tweak these values to attain what you want...
 
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Thanks for that pic, to the bottom of the photo is the Band Pass Filter and Predriver - so note the yellow and violet capped capacitors - they are the NPO's of that input side of the Predriver.

When you have little swing, it may indicate a tune up is needed but also to remember the Harmonics play a role in this - as you work thru this you'll see where the Carrier power isn't the problem, its' the Drive and Coupling errors (admittance issues) between the stages that cause most of these problems.

You're missing a 180pF cap that would be installed across Collector Emitter (After) of the PC-122 in the 456 - its' across the Base to Emitter - (Before)

So you know, you may need to tweak these values to attain what you want...

Thanks for taking the time to look at it. I'll try an alignment tuneup from the service manual, and if that doesn't improve it, I'll just play with the carrier and AMC to get whatever I can for AM modulation. It is functional on AM, just very anemic I guess. Its main use would be for SSB which works great. I did your clarifier mod which worked well, and just did the "Jumper J5" mod which also improved SSB but theAM is the same. The service manual schematic I can't trust too much since it also shows the components that aren't actually on the board.
 
Welcome to "Revision xx"

You know the saying...

"...Items, Parts, Locations and their Placements are subject to change without notice..."

Where have I heard that before?

Very similar to what they tell Humans on the Side of a Cereal Box...

"This Package Is Sold By Weight - Not By Volume...
Some Settling Of Contents May Occur During Shipping And Handling."

I always attributed it to evaporation - Climate Change you know - like Winter is To Summer and Fall is to Spring...

Along with...
Caution: Contains Nuts

Do they have to do that for Emphasis?
 
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Hi Andy,

I have another question if you have the time. I was wrong about the AM modulation behavior to a degree. What it's doing is there is a small amount of swing for an instant, then drops back to dead-carrier level. It does this with all combinations of low/high AM carrier and AMC pot settings. Is there a particular spot I should look at? SSB works just fine. Thanks
 
Then that is related to a R149, R151 / R152 stuff...

But I also realize, by looking at what I manually saved off of CB Tricks - the very page I found the above, isn't on their "Classic" site...So what you're going to see here is a recreation of the pages, via the "Cut - Paste" method the ones you don't see at the CB Tricks site - as well as many others that have been brought up before...

This thread may become long in the "tooth" due to the number of graphics and work that is a part of the "HandyAndy" side of CB Tricks...

This will be Edited due to the time frame this was made was when parts these radios used, were more plentiful - it's been nearly 20 years since these radios have been closed out...so now I'm more focused on the preservation - and if done with, and in consideration for others, several mods that can be applied that won't make the radio suffer greatly...


The Board Reference and Identification Page...

upload_2021-2-23_8-48-25.png

upload_2021-2-23_8-42-42.png
To help the user identify the correct board and then apply the correct mods...

DETERMIN.GIF

Why would this matter? Well, review the Schematics of two popular radios that looked a lot alike both outside and inside...performance between the two was different - but not by "big changes" more like subtle small part relocations that had a big impact on how your radio worked.

Some examples above are shown below...
TRC-453 TX Strip (as shown above)

upload_2021-2-23_9-0-19.png
Locate C180 on Schematic then on Main PCB
C187 - even see it? It's mounted on the bottom on some
on many - it wasn't.​

TRC-465...
upload_2021-2-23_9-10-19.png
In this comparison, refer above too...
C180 - now PAST the Driver
R195 - 2.2ohm in 453, now removed - Left L32 in
C211 and C145 divider/parse down RF power from the Driver
before it arrives to the Final.
R173 - was 8.2 ohm, now 15 ohm - Q38 Pre-Driver
R172 12 ohm! (TRC-453 150 ohm)
I'm advising you the 2166's are not OEM anymore...​
PC-122 Mobile/Pro-810e BASE
upload_2021-2-23_9-21-40.png
Using the list of parts above, compare...
See C134? Look on your Board - part value changes!
Again, 2SC2166 Driver is hard to obtain OEM anymore...​

What I also needed to show is the SAME BOARD (PC-122 and TRC-465) are electrically similar, but they use different part values to obtain different levels of performance...

What I'm showing you here is - Options.

Some like RF compression effects; the AM Modulation and SSB Envelope works in specific ways.

While others would rather have Swing and Loud Modulation without the "pinch effect"

  • - both can be done to some degree by changing the VR pots to obtain a level of AMC/ALC works and also the AM Power and how it then lowers Carrier reference so it changes how AM Power works.

In a typical Galaxy radio - they introduced a form of regulation for Variable power in both AM and SSB modes;

In this smaller radio board - you have to make changes to the Limiter action - either by desensitizing the input to the Modulation Control Circuit - which looks to Both AMC and ALC taps;
upload_2021-2-23_10-2-2.png
When in SSB mode, Q29 is essentially cut off,
SSB receives full Supply rail power with no audio
- done thru SSB switch Q38

upload_2021-2-23_9-53-53.png

Or by affecting the way the Modulation Control stage works, by changing it's values...

ALC taps RF at the output when in SSB mode - it's pinched off in AM mode by D41 pushing power into the "power leg" Q34 - and works accordingly to the amount of RF power than can turn on Q34 and pull power from the PNP Modulation Amp - Q28 (2SA733) by using the adjustable level of power set by R178 (22K) and VR6 10K acting as a voltage Divider to set thresholds the ALC sends to the Modulation Amp.

Look back up at the R151 Discussion graphic, locate R149 a 1M resistor - this works with R148 to form a tight divider circuit that forces the PNP transistor Q28 to follow the output lines of Q29 or Q34 as they fluctuate with their tap signal levels. R146 and R147 form a Split divider (equal) for the output of Q28 reflecting the ALC or AMC sections - into the Limiter Q27. This puts the Limiter Q27 (NPN 2SC945) into a Linear state - like Class A which then allows Mic audio to pass thru itself into ground with the Base of Q27 being the "Valve" the Mic audio passes thru - less audio - less drive - less Mic Audio is siphoned off - it's allowed to pass into the Mic amp itself - until spikes or thresholds set by VR6 and VR5 engage Q28 to provide more drive current into Q27 - C113 along with R148 and R149 develop the Attack and Delay (Decay) of the drive signal Q28 drives Q27 with - forces Q27 to drive more Mic Audio into Ground - and due to the use of C111 R144 and R161 - allows the low-level Mic Audio Signal to flow into ground somewhat linearly.
  • I use Somewhat as tongue in cheek,
  • for Mic Audio itself - as low signal level as it is arriving to the Mic amp stage - the Limiter is driven non-linearly by the efforts of Q28 and the bias network it uses, not from the "amplification of Q27" provides, The Limiter itself (Q27) is only acting as a linearly-driven switch against the Mic Audio - which is weak signal level in itself so audio from it tends to suffer from the non-linear drive Q28 drives Q27's Base with.
  • To solve that? Well, mostly by changing the way Q28 works in the first place, and also inclusive by working with the sensitivity the ALC and AMC - their Aggressiveness - and how works on Q28.
  • So R151, R152 along with R148 (1Meg) and C113 can be altered to different lower values to allow the operator some range to control the activity and how hard the limiter works - which in turn can affect how well the operator sounds to others.
  • To enjoy the radio more, please don't try to remove the limiter if it can be avoided - for there are reasons in the RX side that is why it is in there.
    • Review your schematic carefully and you'll see where the Mic and Receive Audio can Mix together in the common tie point of C170 at the Audio Amp. For the Mic audio strip remains powered during RX and TX - so there are conditions that can inject noises the Mic amp can amplify if the Limiter is removed.

For some simple results - trying to change the way Q28 works is done thru changing R148 and R149 aspects - focus more on R149 1 Meg - which is a large value resistor that forces Q28 to operate harshly as a switch than a linear analog - audio - amplifier tracking signal - the lower R149 is, the more balanced the audio level to drive output is improved.

C113 can also be changed to alter the attack and decay of the signal pulses that show up during keyclicks and noises the mic amp will attempt to push into the Transmit audio either by SSB modes or thru the AM Regulator. The lag time the Limiter takes to recover is thru the R148/R149 and C113 ranges of values used.
 

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To help with Bias...

My main beef has been R172 not having a way of dividing down the 8 volt TX current power load - for when it's driven hard, the Bias itself can climb - and can blow the Bias diode (MV-1Y) by doing so - from too much Bias applied, and SSB signal driven hard during a QSO with the ALC turned nearly off - not effective - against strong output from the TX strip.

If you have to do it (run it) that way...

Might as well install a divider to offset some of this voltage....got a 180 ohm resistor? Install it across R172's leg to the Driver just past VR9 (not L32) to Foil Ground
  • - Not chassis (Case) ground - Board POWER ground.

Follow this as an example
upload_2021-2-23_11-29-50.png
Whether it's a Cobra SSB or Uniden SSB radio
Realistic or otherwise...
Locate VR9 and R172 install a 180 ohm 1/4W
resistor from the junction of the VR9 output to R172 and Foil Ground underneath VR9
The graphic on the left is for Cobra SSB radios that have Driver VR pot located just before the Bias Diode.

Is it necessary to re-adjust Bias?
You should verify that there is 50mA OR LESS at the Drivers TP jumper,
then you're set. Reduces the chance for a catastrophic Driver failure.


Kinda' (Or Very) IMPORTANT!
upload_2021-2-23_11-53-41.png

Locate TRC-453 - R 195 (2.2 ohm) resistor
See how it is installed ...
- L32 on one leg to take place of L32 as two parts.
You may want to install resistor there at L32
keeping L32 on one leg reinstalled to
LOWER Bias Drive and to keep
BIAS and RF power away from each other.

This can help go a long way is preserving the Driver from self-destruct caused by Bias 8 volts not having anywhere to go except to SUM into the RF arriving from the Predriver. Too high of voltage - either by bias set for too much current or from excessive drive, the current can rectify and damage the Driver permanently.
 
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I wanna thank you again Andy. I just aquired yet another PC122 which was dead in the modj swing but what I am observing is a 5-6w PEP with the carrier at around 2-3w and it jumped up to 16 pep if i set the carrier pot at 8w which i know isn't something that can fly thermally speaking. much of the same symptoms i see here. think it's bout time i start messin with some resistors
 
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