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which is better jogunn killer 8's or maco laser 500
- Thread starter radioreddz
- Start date
Goodness.. why are those antenna's so expensive. I was thinking of a gizmotchy til I saw the price.
Josh
Josh
Re: best antenna
I've made 11/10, 6M, and 2M antennas too. Does that make me a ham antenna manufacturer?
Gizmotchy is a CB antenna manufacturer and have scaled their antennas to the VHF band. No other ham antenna manufacturer has built antennas using this design. I wonder why.
Do you want to nick-pick this some more or do you finally understand what I'm saying?
Do they make a 20 meter version? How about a 15 meter version? Does anyone? I didn't think so......marven said:
I've made 11/10, 6M, and 2M antennas too. Does that make me a ham antenna manufacturer?
Gizmotchy is a CB antenna manufacturer and have scaled their antennas to the VHF band. No other ham antenna manufacturer has built antennas using this design. I wonder why.
Do you want to nick-pick this some more or do you finally understand what I'm saying?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only problem I have ever had with The antennas is the Gain numbers quoted by the Guys that build them.
It seems to me that 12 Db of gain is beyond belief for a antenna with a 9 foot boom.
Add to that the claim that adding one Element (Power Booster) will increase the Gain by 4 Db.
A 4 element Yagi, set-up as a Long Boom (24 Foot) will yield around 8 Db of Gain.
A 7 element Yagi on a 44 foot boom will yield about 10 Db.
If you Stack 2 of them, you should see an increase of about 3 Db.
Marvin, you are located in Colorado?
Charles Gizmotchy Dealer?
73
Jeff
The only problem I have ever had with The antennas is the Gain numbers quoted by the Guys that build them.
It seems to me that 12 Db of gain is beyond belief for a antenna with a 9 foot boom.
Add to that the claim that adding one Element (Power Booster) will increase the Gain by 4 Db.
A 4 element Yagi, set-up as a Long Boom (24 Foot) will yield around 8 Db of Gain.
A 7 element Yagi on a 44 foot boom will yield about 10 Db.
If you Stack 2 of them, you should see an increase of about 3 Db.
Marvin, you are located in Colorado?
Charles Gizmotchy Dealer?
73
Jeff
Best antenna
Audioshockwav;
Yes, I am a new dealer for Gismotchy. I'm still learning alot about them. The more I play with them, the better I like them.
I really wasn't wanting to turn this into an advertisement; I just spent alot of time with mine recently. I also think that they are a very misunderstood antenna.
Masterchief is Not inclined to want to let my opinion fly, for some reason. So, I did elaborate a little. I'm a little hardheaded, when someone tries to tell me what my findings or opinion should be. I like to know the answer to the question "why?' or "why not?", for any subject. ( inquiring mind, ya know?)
I've been talking to Tom Charles (Gizmotchy) and he is currently building ham band antennas and has for quite a while. He is also working on a couple of new ones. I'm getting a 6 meter antenna from him, myself. The R & D he is putting into these antennas, is amazing to me. They aren't just rescaled antennas.
As I find out more I'll happily share it, if anyone is interested. But, he will have to approve it first. American manufacturers are under different protection laws, than european (sp) manufacturers. ( If anyone didn't know, that is why U.S. made antennas don't have patents.)
As I have stated previously, I use one for 11 meters and enjoy it.
End thread hijack; I hadn't intended to let it go this far.
marven
Audioshockwav;
Yes, I am a new dealer for Gismotchy. I'm still learning alot about them. The more I play with them, the better I like them.
I really wasn't wanting to turn this into an advertisement; I just spent alot of time with mine recently. I also think that they are a very misunderstood antenna.
Masterchief is Not inclined to want to let my opinion fly, for some reason. So, I did elaborate a little. I'm a little hardheaded, when someone tries to tell me what my findings or opinion should be. I like to know the answer to the question "why?' or "why not?", for any subject. ( inquiring mind, ya know?)
I've been talking to Tom Charles (Gizmotchy) and he is currently building ham band antennas and has for quite a while. He is also working on a couple of new ones. I'm getting a 6 meter antenna from him, myself. The R & D he is putting into these antennas, is amazing to me. They aren't just rescaled antennas.
As I find out more I'll happily share it, if anyone is interested. But, he will have to approve it first. American manufacturers are under different protection laws, than european (sp) manufacturers. ( If anyone didn't know, that is why U.S. made antennas don't have patents.)
As I have stated previously, I use one for 11 meters and enjoy it.
End thread hijack; I hadn't intended to let it go this far.
marven
That would be welcomed, If you would like, let him know that his input here would be welcomed as well.
I agree!
I would like to hear(if allowed) what kind of testing has been done to arrive at the numbers posted for the 3 Element with The extension kits.
Not out to steal any secrets here, just some radio guys that would like to know what it is that allows this antenna to Post such high gain figures.
73
Jeff
Jogunn/Maco
AudioShockwav, You won't be stealing any secerts because marven or Tom Charles cannot post any gain charts on this antenna to prove their claim about the gain.Is it a well built antenna, Yes.The 1981 cb magazine does nothing to prove the gain figures.They had to take what figures that was supplied to them.I don't have the magazine but I would bet my last dime that there wasn't a gain chart in there either.So if either one of you gentleman can post a plotted gain chart for this antenna using a known modeling program and the gain is what you say I will buy one.I know you don't like the computer programs but they have to be a truer way to measure gain than pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
AudioShockwav, You won't be stealing any secerts because marven or Tom Charles cannot post any gain charts on this antenna to prove their claim about the gain.Is it a well built antenna, Yes.The 1981 cb magazine does nothing to prove the gain figures.They had to take what figures that was supplied to them.I don't have the magazine but I would bet my last dime that there wasn't a gain chart in there either.So if either one of you gentleman can post a plotted gain chart for this antenna using a known modeling program and the gain is what you say I will buy one.I know you don't like the computer programs but they have to be a truer way to measure gain than pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
Re: best antenna
I've known lots of Hams over the years and am one, and honestly I don't ever recall ever hearing anyone who ran one...even on 10 meters. :? Am I alone on that one? Maybe they are international or something...but I would think that if they are so popular, I would have run into at least one Ham that knew someone who knew someone who owned one. :|
Round 2 cooooommmin up.
Such as what? Please be specific so us old timers can learn. :shock:marven said:
Exactly what antennas have you compared it to? Honestly Marven, I'm not putting them down either but all the folks I've known (which there's only been a couple) had never even owned a beam before that. They had absolutely nothing else to properly compare it to. :frkymarven said:
I've known lots of Hams over the years and am one, and honestly I don't ever recall ever hearing anyone who ran one...even on 10 meters. :? Am I alone on that one? Maybe they are international or something...but I would think that if they are so popular, I would have run into at least one Ham that knew someone who knew someone who owned one. :|
Round 2 cooooommmin up.
QRN,
I hope not!
Just some miscellaneous stuff...
Antenna modeling programs are not 'fact', they are theoretical in nature. They are also more accurate than the average 'pencil-pushing Geek' doing the same thing on paper. If you enter all the pertinent data in a particular antenna set up, they are very accurate. That's seldom done cuz it is a huge-a-mongus project, and the average home computer will take quite some time to crank out an answer. They are a very handy guide line, especially is you compare the results with a documented antenna analysis, then 'adjust' the findings accordingly.
'Real life' antenna testing is not cheap, depends on accurate measurements, and repeatability. That means an antenna range facility. The 'problem' with that is cost, in most cases it's still 'theoretical' in nature, and because the repeatability only holds true for the testing facility, you should only use the resilts as a 'guide line', not 'take it to the bank' fact.
Propagation has absolutely no bearing on gain. But it can certainly 'skew' gain figures!
Most commercially made antenna gain figures are a product of the advertising department. That's true for both 'CB' and 'ham' manufacturers, unfortunately. If you don't have some 'not quite' basic antenna knowledge, and read the specs very closely, most people will draw the wrong conclusion about gain. (Everybody gets bit at ~least~ once! Me included.) With HF antennas, once you get to about 12 - 14 dB of gain you can start looking for that advertising thingy.
I quit. This is getting ridiculous, I'll quit wasting time.
- 'Doc
I hope not!
Just some miscellaneous stuff...
Antenna modeling programs are not 'fact', they are theoretical in nature. They are also more accurate than the average 'pencil-pushing Geek' doing the same thing on paper. If you enter all the pertinent data in a particular antenna set up, they are very accurate. That's seldom done cuz it is a huge-a-mongus project, and the average home computer will take quite some time to crank out an answer. They are a very handy guide line, especially is you compare the results with a documented antenna analysis, then 'adjust' the findings accordingly.
'Real life' antenna testing is not cheap, depends on accurate measurements, and repeatability. That means an antenna range facility. The 'problem' with that is cost, in most cases it's still 'theoretical' in nature, and because the repeatability only holds true for the testing facility, you should only use the resilts as a 'guide line', not 'take it to the bank' fact.
Propagation has absolutely no bearing on gain. But it can certainly 'skew' gain figures!
Most commercially made antenna gain figures are a product of the advertising department. That's true for both 'CB' and 'ham' manufacturers, unfortunately. If you don't have some 'not quite' basic antenna knowledge, and read the specs very closely, most people will draw the wrong conclusion about gain. (Everybody gets bit at ~least~ once! Me included.) With HF antennas, once you get to about 12 - 14 dB of gain you can start looking for that advertising thingy.
I quit. This is getting ridiculous, I'll quit wasting time.
- 'Doc
Re: Best antenna
Marven, you amaze me. First I'm going to address your foolish statements quoted above, then let you know what I think.
1. I am not stopping you from stating your opinion on anything. As a matter of FACT, I never even addressed you when stating MY opinion of the antennas in question. Let's go back a little......
The original poster asked about the Maco and the Jo-Gunn. I said......
2. I never said what findings you should have. Show me where I said that.
3. If you want to know the answer to a question, you must first ask one. You haven't asked a single question in this thread.
Now on to MY commentary.....
Marvin, you know very little about antennas or antenna design. Last year you bought your Gizmotchy (with a "Z" by the way) and had NO IDEA what you had. You asked out here and people pointed you in the right direction. You put it up and it worked good for you. I have NO problem with this. You make posts worded to sound like you've owned this antenna since 1968 and then make foolish claims about gain figures which are impossible to achieve. When those more knowledgeable than you about these things, point this out to you, you try to defend your position. You talk about how long they have been around and how many people have them. Well, how many people have Antron 99's and we all know how good of an antenna THAT is.
I've said it before, the Gizmotchy is a fine antenna but does not have the gain figures the manufacturer or YOU claim they do. The "technical lab test" article you keep referring to is nothing close to being a true technical evaluation of an antenna.
I've also pointed out that the ONLY two companies who manufacturer this type of antenna are both CB antenna companies. If the design is superior, then the ham market would pick up on it......somewhere! They haven't and I'm confident that people have looked at those designs.
If you like it, great! Like it and try to promote it all you can; I don't have a single problem with this, even on the forum. But don't be surprised if you get called on some or most of your claims. And let's e clear about this, I have no issues with the Gizmotchy. I wouldn't own one, but I don't hate them. There are a lot of antennas I wouldn't own.
Marvin, you need to listen more and talk less, especially about the things you know nothing about. I didn't come out on this thread attacking you or Gizmotchy. I stated MY (educated) opinion about what antenna I would choose, out of the two given. I didn't bring up your name or any hint of the other thread.
If you want to continue showing your ignorance about antennas, I will continue pointing out your errors. Your opinions are yours and if you like the Gizmotchy better, then I have no problem with it.
Lastly (because this is really beginning to bore me), this "least understood antenna" is mostly mis-understood by you. When someone or ANYONE can produce some real life plots (they don't have top be done by a computer, but it sure is easier) of this antenna then my thinking about them may change (based on the results of those plots). In the mean time, I'll stick with the yagi/quad/delta antennas as they have proven designs.
Get Tom out here and let him educate us! I'm always open to learning more!
I just hope the lies stop or I'll have my own personal campaign warning people about the misinformation coming from Gizmotchy and Marven. In the mean time, if people want to spend their money on a Gizmotchy or a Jo-Gunn, so be it.
marven said:
Marven, you amaze me. First I'm going to address your foolish statements quoted above, then let you know what I think.
1. I am not stopping you from stating your opinion on anything. As a matter of FACT, I never even addressed you when stating MY opinion of the antennas in question. Let's go back a little......
The original poster asked about the Maco and the Jo-Gunn. I said......
Then you pop in with your "I've been here before" comments. A couple of posts later, you addressed ME. I clarified my point, which hasn't changed by the way, and I'm labled as somehow suppressing your opinion. More on this later...Master Chief said:
2. I never said what findings you should have. Show me where I said that.
3. If you want to know the answer to a question, you must first ask one. You haven't asked a single question in this thread.
Now on to MY commentary.....
Marvin, you know very little about antennas or antenna design. Last year you bought your Gizmotchy (with a "Z" by the way) and had NO IDEA what you had. You asked out here and people pointed you in the right direction. You put it up and it worked good for you. I have NO problem with this. You make posts worded to sound like you've owned this antenna since 1968 and then make foolish claims about gain figures which are impossible to achieve. When those more knowledgeable than you about these things, point this out to you, you try to defend your position. You talk about how long they have been around and how many people have them. Well, how many people have Antron 99's and we all know how good of an antenna THAT is.
I've said it before, the Gizmotchy is a fine antenna but does not have the gain figures the manufacturer or YOU claim they do. The "technical lab test" article you keep referring to is nothing close to being a true technical evaluation of an antenna.
I've also pointed out that the ONLY two companies who manufacturer this type of antenna are both CB antenna companies. If the design is superior, then the ham market would pick up on it......somewhere! They haven't and I'm confident that people have looked at those designs.
If you like it, great! Like it and try to promote it all you can; I don't have a single problem with this, even on the forum. But don't be surprised if you get called on some or most of your claims. And let's e clear about this, I have no issues with the Gizmotchy. I wouldn't own one, but I don't hate them. There are a lot of antennas I wouldn't own.
Marvin, you need to listen more and talk less, especially about the things you know nothing about. I didn't come out on this thread attacking you or Gizmotchy. I stated MY (educated) opinion about what antenna I would choose, out of the two given. I didn't bring up your name or any hint of the other thread.
If you want to continue showing your ignorance about antennas, I will continue pointing out your errors. Your opinions are yours and if you like the Gizmotchy better, then I have no problem with it.
Lastly (because this is really beginning to bore me), this "least understood antenna" is mostly mis-understood by you. When someone or ANYONE can produce some real life plots (they don't have top be done by a computer, but it sure is easier) of this antenna then my thinking about them may change (based on the results of those plots). In the mean time, I'll stick with the yagi/quad/delta antennas as they have proven designs.
Get Tom out here and let him educate us! I'm always open to learning more!
I just hope the lies stop or I'll have my own personal campaign warning people about the misinformation coming from Gizmotchy and Marven. In the mean time, if people want to spend their money on a Gizmotchy or a Jo-Gunn, so be it.
Let's just remember what happend to the other thread the last time things went the way this is looking like it's going. :roll:
Best antenna
Masterchief;
I think I've had enough. Now I'm a liar. (But, you don't call anyone names.)
All I ever wanted to do was have a diologe (sp) on inverted V's and trimount antennas. Especially raised vertically and stacked. However, when the subject is even mentioned, you slam the design as junk.
I'm not going to keep bothering you. I won't be here anymore. I am still trying to learn, and I'll go where I can. So just color me gone.
marven
Masterchief;
I think I've had enough. Now I'm a liar. (But, you don't call anyone names.)
All I ever wanted to do was have a diologe (sp) on inverted V's and trimount antennas. Especially raised vertically and stacked. However, when the subject is even mentioned, you slam the design as junk.
I'm not going to keep bothering you. I won't be here anymore. I am still trying to learn, and I'll go where I can. So just color me gone.
marven
I think i have it
Gizmotchy and Jogunn are getting there db gain from testing there antenna's compaired to a dummyload :frky
I know this much
Antenna specialist / Hygain / cushcraft / mosley. Iam sure there are a few i didnt mention. Which all of the above had made and some still do make 11meter antenna's as well as ham and commerical and millatary antenna's.
Most all of these company's are multi million dollar companys. That have the test facilaty's and enginer's on there payroll. To do the testing of antenna design and have spent rather large amount's of time and money to come up with the best and most efficent design's possable.
If some thinks that if someone built a antenna out of there backyard or garage and said it is better than those above this mentioned. The proof is in the pudding. Send this said antenna to the test lab facilaty's and get it documented.
ok im done 73's all
Gizmotchy and Jogunn are getting there db gain from testing there antenna's compaired to a dummyload :frky
I know this much
Antenna specialist / Hygain / cushcraft / mosley. Iam sure there are a few i didnt mention. Which all of the above had made and some still do make 11meter antenna's as well as ham and commerical and millatary antenna's.
Most all of these company's are multi million dollar companys. That have the test facilaty's and enginer's on there payroll. To do the testing of antenna design and have spent rather large amount's of time and money to come up with the best and most efficent design's possable.
If some thinks that if someone built a antenna out of there backyard or garage and said it is better than those above this mentioned. The proof is in the pudding. Send this said antenna to the test lab facilaty's and get it documented.
ok im done 73's all