102" whip vs the rest

[10k223]

I asked you one and am waiting for your answer so I guess were even, Will Doc's answer make your reply different? or perhaps you wont disclose your "Real World Test procedure" for fear of ridicule? Perhaps you should have posted what you dont agree with Doc's statement, again fear of ridicule or you gonna point us to the ARRL book again and cite something that isn't related to the topic at hand.

I'm not afraid of anything. What I'm talking about is the very first antenna I ever built. It didn't look as good as the ones I market but it performed well enough to continue on. I rolled a coil with seven full coils, put it on a 27" shaft mounted 22" back away from the back window of my old 88 GMC pickup. It was a tall antenna almost as tall as a 102 whip. I ran a 102 whip for 10 years before I finally had to see how well a coil antenna would work. It seemed to be doing everything I wanted it to do especially in skip land. The only "FEAR" I ever had with antennas was back then when I had to do a field strength test with the antenna I had built against the cheap 102 whip. They were both tested against each other barefoot and with power. The coil antenna showed more field strength than the 102. I had my mind made up thet if the 102 beats it, there would be no use going any further with any other kind of antenna but to stick with the 102. If the 102 had beat the coil antenna, there wouldn't be any 10k's any where around. Troy Tullous (STAR GUN) came up to me 5 years ago at the Northwest meet in Seattle Washington and said,"You've came a long way with these antennas haven't you"? I said, "Yes, I have since the first one I ever built". I've made a lot of improvements in 17 years and every improvement costs me more money but I have yet to go up on price.

 

[Shockwave]

Once again, loaded antennas do not produce more field strength then unloaded antennas. Compliments from Troy mean nothing until he reaches the point where he understands his mobile beams do not perform anything like a beam. It's like the blind putting a darker pair of sun glasses on.

 

[10k223]

Once again, loaded antennas do not produce more field strength then unloaded antennas. Compliments from Troy mean nothing until he reaches the point where he understands his mobile beams do not perform anything like a beam. It's like the blind putting a darker pair of sun glasses on.[/QUOTE You say that because the book says that. I think you know yourself that there are cases when a well designed coil antenna will out perform this 102 perfect 1/4 wave no reflect 52 ohm piece of wire. Be sure to put a tennis ball on it so it won't beat the vehicle to death. Even better, paint the ball to match the vehicle.They are supposed to be the best but why are there just only about 1% of all vehicles have one on them? Not one 10k antenna has been built out of an antenna handbook and I don't build antennas with a bunch of tinker toys on them and call them beams because they don't work. They are a sell factor only.

 

[Kamikaze]

I didnt actually write that, i somehow got part of his post in mine

Oh.

 

[W5LZ]

Kale/10k223,
Do yourself a favor. Quit arguing about making a 'goof' and promoting ignorance.
- 'Doc

 

[MrSuburban]

Once again, loaded antennas do not produce more field strength then unloaded antennas. Compliments from Troy mean nothing until he reaches the point where he understands his mobile beams do not perform anything like a beam. It's like the blind putting a darker pair of sun glasses on.[/QUOTE You say that because the book says that. I think you know yourself that there are cases when a well designed coil antenna will out perform this 102 perfect 1/4 wave no reflect 52 ohm piece of wire. Be sure to put a tennis ball on it so it won't beat the vehicle to death. Even better, paint the ball to match the vehicle.They are supposed to be the best but why are there just only about 1% of all vehicles have one on them? Not one 10k antenna has been built out of an antenna handbook and I don't build antennas with a bunch of tinker toys on them and call them beams because they don't work. They are a sell factor only.

Kale your comments are really sad, you are right no 10k has ever been built using the handbook because if it was you wouldnt build half the stuff your building. Only 1% of the people use them because they are big and obtrusive, it isn't because they dont work as good as a coil antenna .

Kale lets drop the 102" whip for a moment an focus on a 1/4 wave cause thats what the 102" whip is, guys in keydowns use full 1/4 waves for a reason cause if they used a coil like your's they would be donating there money to the guys who use full 1/4. you or anyones coil antenna has loss whether you want to admit or cant understand that sorry to say it is true. The guys making double coils are making double the loss. If something has loss how can it perfom better than something that has less loss> See you didnt need the book to understand that. You wanna talk about if a coil antenna is built properly? Like how? a good weld? fancy lathe work? they have nothing to do with performance...

Anyone can make a coil antenna that will outperform your antenna tommorow, it certainly wont be a center load. Your crying about a 102" whip is comical put a tennis ball on it, what about your 30K how is someone going to drive around with that without beating all the trees to death with that solid shaft, you gotta lot of room to talk... You dont need a tennis ball on your's you need a pillow.

 

[jazzsinger]

Kale your comments are really sad, you are right no 10k has ever been built using the handbook because if it was you wouldnt build half the stuff your building. Only 1% of the people use them because they are big and obtrusive, it isn't because they dont work as good as a coil antenna .

AMEN

you gotta lot of room to talk... You dont need a tennis ball on your's you need a pillow.

Priceless.

 

[TexasOutlaw]

I personally like the 102" antenna. Getting very hard to find around here though. Radio Shack used to carry them, but not anymore.

 

[NY739 Mobile]

I personally like the 102" antenna. Getting very hard to find around here though. Radio Shack used to carry them, but not anymore.

You can still go online to the radio shack web site, purchase them , and have them shipped to you or your local store, or a guy sells them on Flea Bay for twice as much as radio shack......

 

[office888]

Gentlemen, behold!

I have a 102" stainless on order, should be here tomorrow. 96" fiberglass is to give you an idea of the size.

I'm going to probably eventually run a Yaesu FT857 + LDG auto-tuner at the base of the antenna for action on 10-40m.

 

[15minigrass]

In most/certain cases/applications I think the Predator 10K will out do the 102" SS + 6" extension = 108"

Yesterday I was parked in my driveway and was trying to get to 57 who was about 40+ miles away from me. @ first I had the 108" keyed up my radio/350 Amp and tried calling for him and no response. I was doing this for about 1-2 minutes and no response. Then I swapped out the 108 whip and went with the 17" 10K, 1st key up I call his # he came back. But remember, he didnʻt know I swapped antennas and I didnʻt even mentioned it to him. We talked for couple minutes until Honolulu came so I shut down the mobile and went in. He was on the East end of Kauai and Im S.West of him

57 runs dual 102" bounce back (Hot/Reflector) setup on his Chevy Safari Van and his was pointed my way.

Now why is it that he could hear me with the 10K not the whip? Is it Conditions etc...etc..etc..? How would one explain that?

Any good input is welcome. Im not looking for an argument, just explinations.

Im not lying about it nor Am I picking sides but I know for certain Kaleʻs antennas are good and they work for me/my application.

I have both 102"/Pred 10K and I run them both.

Stargun mount top of roof.... I was parked here.

 

[W5LZ]

The simplest explanation would be that there was a change in the radiation characteristics/pattern between the two antennas. That, along with any changes of propagation, and who knows what else, could account for what you experienced. there's also the fact that the two antennas are almost certainly not 'tuned' the same (that means both impedance matching AND resonance). Or maybe you just were not wearing the right color socks...
- 'Doc

 

[15minigrass]

Thanx Doc, well that might explain it. Swrʻs on bouthe are just an increment in difference. I tuned the 10K and never added any grease or anti sieze to the whip, darn whip is stuck in there. And Doc, we wear slippers here in tha minigrass or some may call it shower shoes, flip flops.

"change in the radiation characteristics/pattern between the two antennas." But I like this one better. Makes more sence...

Mahalo Doc....

The simplest explanation would be that there was a change in the radiation characteristics/pattern between the two antennas. That, along with any changes of propagation, and who knows what else, could account for what you experienced. there's also the fact that the two antennas are almost certainly not 'tuned' the same (that means both impedance matching AND resonance). Or maybe you just were not wearing the right color socks...
- 'Doc

 

[Shockwave]

In most/certain cases/applications I think the Predator 10K will out do the 102" SS + 6" extension = 108"

Yesterday I was parked in my driveway and was trying to get to 57 who was about 40+ miles away from me. @ first I had the 108" keyed up my radio/350 Amp and tried calling for him and no response. I was doing this for about 1-2 minutes and no response. Then I swapped out the 108 whip and went with the 17" 10K, 1st key up I call his # he came back. But remember, he didnʻt know I swapped antennas and I didnʻt even mentioned it to him. We talked for couple minutes until Honolulu came so I shut down the mobile and went in. He was on the East end of Kauai and Im S.West of him

57 runs dual 102" bounce back (Hot/Reflector) setup on his Chevy Safari Van and his was pointed my way.

Now why is it that he could hear me with the 10K not the whip? Is it Conditions etc...etc..etc..? How would one explain that?

Any good input is welcome. Im not looking for an argument, just explinations.

Im not lying about it nor Am I picking sides but I know for certain Kaleʻs antennas are good and they work for me/my application.

I have both 102"/Pred 10K and I run them both.

Stargun mount top of roof.... I was parked here.

I'll bet you two birds in the bush that after you got his attention you could have asked him to stand by a second while you changed back to the unloaded whip and 57 would have heard you just as good if not better. I also see what looks like a metal gutter with a nail sticking out directly in front of your tall antenna where you were parked. Could be that screwed everything up.

 

[15minigrass]

Come on Shock, What if I water gated it what else would you say? I didnʻt get his attention til I swapped out the antennas and as I said "I never mentioned it to him". He only heard me when I mounted the 10K period. and no, I never switched back to the whip or whatever your ASSUMING. When Honolulu came in, I couldnʻt get back to him due to the fact that he was on the East end of the Island and had a better RX on them instead of me. If you think Im lying well go ahead, Im not lying, Im just posting what happened and asking inputs on it.

Doc said it Propagations, antennas, etc or maybe a different colored flip flops.

Thatʻs an eve of the roof of the garage. If that played a roll in messing with the signals maybe thats the reason for it.

Im not here to argue with you, just want some answers.

Good nite Shock, Aloha. James...

I'll bet you two birds in the bush that after you got his attention you could have asked him to stand by a second while you changed back to the unloaded whip and 57 would have heard you just as good if not better. I also see what looks like a metal gutter with a nail sticking out directly in front of your tall antenna where you were parked. Could be that screwed everything up.