Ok this is my stupid question...

[cphilip]

Something here confuses me. Not that I ever pretended to know much about this ham stuff but something has me confused

It has to do with terminology I see all the time and Radios I see called 10 meter radios. What exactly is the definition of a 10 meter radio?

Because I see radios that seem to have frequency ranges in a bunch of other areas outside of the 10 meter range but generaly top out in that range called 10 meter radios. I mean some (if not many of them cover the 11 meter range too and all the way down into the 24 something Mhz ranges even. But to read the blubs on them they tend to list just the 28's. But yet they have these other frequencies in pools so why are they just called 10 meter radios if they do more?

this came up in a recent discussion and I really had no answer. One radio said it was 10 meter and clearly only listed its range in that area but yet it HAD the CB bands and even below. But yet it mentioned them not at all. Many of them seem to be doing that too.

Am I just confused on what a meter is? Whats going on here!

 

[Carl]

its the frequency allocation of a band. 10m was considered the end of the high frequency segment.

10 Meters (28-29.7 MHz)
28.000-28.070 CW
28.070-28.150 RTTY
28.150-28.190 CW
28.200-28.300 Beacons
28.300-29.300 Phone
28.680 SSTV
29.000-29.200 AM
29.300-29.510 Satellite Downlinks
29.520-29.590 Repeater Inputs
29.600 FM Simplex
29.610-29.700 Repeater Outputs

a ten meter radio will cover the entire 10m band 28-29.7. if it covers more than 10-12 meters it is considered a hf rig or high frequency as that is what it coveres.

most 10m radios on the market today are glorified cb's. they call them 10m radios as a way to make them seem legal and help get them into the country. they are also known as exports. if a radio can transmit in the 11m cb band it is required by law to be bound to the regulations of the cb band. exports do not as they are more powerfull, and allow modes of communication that is outlawed on the 11m cb band.

not all 10m meter radios can be converted to cover 11meters. one of the more popular models is the radio shack htx-10 its a straight up 10m only radio.

as far as transmission goes in the 10m band a technition licence with morse code has the ability to transmit in a narrow portion of the band with limited power (200watts pep) where as a general class or higher amature can make full use of the band with a maximum of 1500watts - what most people dont know is that many times you cannot use 1500 watts as measurments of power levels are subject to maximum permissible exposure (MPE) levels. in fact any station that transmits more than 50 watts is required by law to perform a station evaluation. you figure distance from the antenna (hight and length), your average power over a set time (usually 30 min), the frequency, and the gain of the antenna.

you will see that at 30 feet above ground a 3 element yagi (beam) is not safe at 1500 watts. its actually about 112 feet away from the antenna to be cosidered safe to operate this way. (using am/ fm) - conversational cw or ssb will be a few feet closer as there duty cycle is less.

im sorry for the rambling but i figured i would explain it the best i could.

* you now know why the fcc will never aprove high power for use on the cb bands, its not because cbers are bad. its because its unsafe!

 

[cphilip]

Ok so let me get this straight. If a Radio that is "called" a 10 meter radio has the capability of operating in the 11 meter band it is actually a High Frequencty rig. But they, for some reason I still am not quite clear on, they call it a 10 meter rig in order to step around some legal hurdle to sell them. Now thats the part thats unclear to me... what that does for them to call them a 10 meter rig when in actuality a 10 meter band is restricted. And the 11 meter band is not.

I was discussing the Cobra 150 GTL when this came up. I found a set of channels showing all the 11 meter bands in it on channel "B". But then when I looked up in its owners manual I found ONLY 10 meter bands listed in all four. So this threw me for a loop. Because then I looked at the Ranger RCI (which I knew had all the 11 meter bands in it and its documentation also only lists the 10 meter bands. But I know for a fact it has others. All the way down into 24 Mhz ranges. So I was then totaly dumbfounded as to why all the documentation shows is 10 meter bands when I knew it had otherwise.

So... follow up dumb question....

Do they intentionaly not list its other bands that it can access to get around some law? And do all of them actualy operate on frequencies outside of the 10 meter range? Outside of the aforementioned Radio Shack model. And perhaps this Cobra 150 GTL? I might mention I saw several ranges with this thing being mentioned that were NOT 10 meter ranges. But the factory documentation does not mention them.

 

[Carl]

let me try to clear this

a 10m radio operates in only the 10m band and cannot be changed. a export radio is a 10m radio that can be converted to be used on the cb band- these are rangers, cobras, magnums, galaxy's and clones etc they are not true ham radio's. a ham radio will not come with echo, a retard beep, "band" switches or a channel display. a hf radio will cover from 160m-10m (all hf bands)- these are kenwoods, yeasu's, icom's and allinco's. as you notice real ham radios only show a frequency, as there are no channels on ham. cb's have channels so its easier for the uneducated public to operate.

exports do not come with ctcss boards or abilitys to install one*. (sub tones for activating a repeater) exports were designed as high power cb's that cover the common out of band frequencys. they are called 10m radios as a way for them to be shipped into this country, they are not. they are illegal to own, operate, distribute, or sell in the united states and controling territorys.

i guess the easy way to say it is you cannot buy a new 10m radio, they are all exports now a days. you get cought with one and its a big fine (up to $10,000) and it becomes theres.

95% of 10m phone transmissions are done via upper sideband, the remaining balance is fm use for repeaters. am is not used much at all. most early hf rigs did not have am, it wasnt untill the 70's that am started to be built into the radios. cw is the most common way to transmit on 10m.



*the new 2950dx series radios and uniden hr2600's had optional ctcss boards available. they are still considered exports as they can be easily modified to be used on the 11m band.

 

[cphilip]

Thats pretty darn clear.

So this nonsense they put that says "illegal to operate" or more often they say "illegal to broadcast without a license..." is a slight of the hand. They in fact are illegal PERIOD and they are trying to cover themselves with a disclaimer. This is somewhat similar to people selling automotive or motorcycle parts that they say "For off Road only" because they do not meet some DOT or EPA regulation.

So this 2980wx I own, which has 11 meters on it, no matter if I stay only on 11 meters or even if I do finish studying and get my license, is illegal no matter what I do...

Thats comforting. :? :x

 

[Carl]

correct, but you got to piss somebody off for feds to come after you. i have an old 2950 (had it for 11 years) with a ctcss mod installed. i listen to usb or fm repeaters in the pickup (we have a 2m crosslinked to 10m and 900mhz up here)

if i were to have a qso with you chances are i wouldnt be able to tell what radio you were using as long as it sounds clean and clear.

keep studying for your licence, (im assuming you are getting your element 2 technition?)

ive passed element 3 (general) but am in the process of learning code for the last time and making it official. im going about it slow with a 15wpm speed, 5wpm spacing, 700 pitch (just like the test) and for some reason -. (N) sounds like ..(I) to me when i listen to it on my computer.

73's kc0wrg

 

[Beetle]

Cphilip -

If the radio's transmitted signal is clean and within the FCC's guidelines for the Amateur Service, it's legal for use on 10 and 12 meters, but it will NEVER be legal for 11 meters because it can't be certified.

When you get your license and you're using that radio on the ham bands legally, it becomes YOUR responsibility to know everything about your signal: how wide it is, how much IMD, how much of the signal is going into harmonics versus the intended frequency...that kind of stuff.

I've heard "Ten Meter" radios that sounded just fine, but I've heard more of them that sound like goose poop, with signals as broad and distorted as you'd care to imagine -- generally caused by a golden screwdriver, all controls fully clockwise, and a power microphone up to 11.

Get the license. Learn about radio. Have fun!

 

[cphilip]

Ok guys. You have put me in the right frame of mind. I am studying but I got a lot to learn. But the FIRST thing I needed to learn was how to NOT do thing illegal and then proceed from there. I had assumed (to some extent wrongly) that I was on the right path. I see now that the road has some curves and yet my caution and concern were well founded. I will proceed with caution and keep studying.

I sit here the last week or so taking online test for tech. I pass like one out of five trys. And miss by one question or two those others. And thats with very little studying, just trying to pull anything out of my history that I might have learned. But I see I got some real reading to do. I need to get a lot more consistent and above the minimum bubble first. My background is NOT electronics or math. It's dang Biological and Medicine. I got a lot of theory to learn here in the next few weeks to a month. So I will be bothering you some from time to time.

Unfortunately I am an hands on kinda guy. I need something in front of me to understand, fiddle with and motivate me. So I get equiped before I get totaly legal. Heck... I road motorcycles long before I ever had a motorcycle license! So I sometimes do things back ass wards. So bare with me. And thanks for all your help so far.

 

[Carl]

as it has been said amature radio is the hardest hobby to learn. you need to show your ability to do it before you even get to see what it is. its like just showing up for your drivers licence test and never have driven a car or been tought before. just keep trying at it. you will learn everything along the way. i havent taken the new tests yet so i figured i would try and see how i did. they reall ymade it easier now with simpular questions and no circuit or electronics related questions.

Test Complete
The elapsed time was: 5 minutes and 42 seconds.
You have passed the test with a score of 82.9 percent.

if you take the tests a few times a day within a few weeks you will rember enough to pass. thats all i did for my tech test, i practiced for 2 weeks and passed with 1 wrong.

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

study up for the test
some find it really hard..

i found it really easy...
ok ok i did study (sort of)

a friend of mine had failed it twise..
so i sat him down 45 mins before taking the test
so i could help him learn what he needed

so i took 2 practice tests with him (explaining this and that as we took practice tests)...
then we both took the test

i forget i got one or two wrong

anyways use qrzz.com and take the practice tests
it really is not hard

any questions
many here would be glad to help (myself included)

ahh and do forget about those 10 meter radios
usally they are better then 11 metrer radios
but most ham ops would not try to compare a 10 meter radio to a "proper ham radio"

is ok i am sure you will learn in time

one problem is for many the hobby of ham radio can be quite expensive...hehe

Later

 

[Sonwatcher]

i have an old 2950 (had it for 11 years) with a ctcss mod installed.

I have wondered if that would be hard to do on the 2950 . Even other Ham radios that don't have a PL function for HF. The HTX-10 has the split freq. but no PL tones for repeaters. I did put a Tone box on my RCI-5054 with guidance from Paul-CDX8412. That was a feeling of accomplishment when you learn to do something like that with your own hands.

 

[K8PG]

Amateur Exam

Hello CPhilip:

What you need to do is go to the ARRL WEB SITE and purchase the Tech license manuel,not just the answer and question book,but the real study guide it will explain all in detail what you need to learn and how to TAKE THE EXAM IT WILL HAVE ALL THE QUESTIONS IN THE BACK OF THE STUDY GUIDE
WITH ANSWERS.The question is do you want to understand the questions and theory or do you want to just memorize a bunch of Qs?Its much better to understand what your doing then just blind questions.I would also recomend getting a copy of the ARRLs Amateur Radio Handbook also if you want some more detailed examples and explanations youcant go wrong there.In the old days you had no questions and answers just a sylabus and you really had to know electronics theory now days Id say 65% of hams are appliance operaters.Ive been an Elmer to hundreds of people over the past 37 yrs and I always teach from the ARRL study manuels my pass rate for students has been 80%.I would recomend if your learning the code to get copy off the air (real cw) with a receiver.The MFJ KEY AND OSCILLATOR YOU WERE TALKING ABT IS GREAT to start and learn cw with.Learn them at a mixed order ,numbers,letters and puncuation and pro signs.As you driving to work you see the stop sign say in you head the morse code ,everything you do think code once you have learned all the charrectors,the key is practice practice practice and more practice you must over learn the code so you dont have to think what it is you just know,it becomes like beautiful music after awhile.dont give up the key is practice and overlearning,my son at 7 yrs old could copy 15wpm and has had his general since he was 8 yrs old nw 21,hes now around 45wpm but hes rusty hasnt been active for a few mos.I use 98%cw its the best i think,ive talked around the world with100milliwatts on a dipole.No question is dumb or stupid I dont know were you live but Iam sure there is an OLD Ham Elmer around that would be more than willing to help you get you amateur ticket.I would get your code and tech ticket at the same time so you can have some real fun on HF and then work towards your General ticket,if you get the tech only with no code it will stiffle you and you wont be able to enjoy HF.Good luck and ask away anytime many folks to help but the Full study guide-73/GL/DX-YM

de K8PG-PAUL CW LIVES-O.O. :usa

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Test Complete
The elapsed time was: 5 minutes and 42 seconds.
You have passed the test with a score of 82.9 percent.

Man you guys down there in the USA must have REALLY dumbed down the tests,no offence meant to anyone that has taken it. Less than 6 minutes...holy cow. We here in Canada at least still have a much more involved test.More like an exam really.I think it still has 100 (maybe 50) questions and takes a lot longer than 6 minutes even if you actually know the stuff rather than just memorized the answers to questions. I still think we should have at least the kind of exams we had when I wrote in the late 80's.We had 50 questions on electronic theory and another 50 on rules and regulations,all multiple choice except for a few that required drawing a block diagram of a TX/RX and a basic station setup with gear in the proper config.You were alloted I believe 1 1/2 HOURS to do it.You passed the CW exam with 100 % or you did not pass at all.I could go either way with the CW part but I would like to see the older style written portion.

 

[cphilip]

Yes. I have ordered the ARRL Study guide. Not here yet.

I was taking the online tests just to get an idea of how they test and familiarize myself with what they are going to concentrate. And just to see what other parts of my 50 years of life may have accidently picked up so I could concentrate on my weak areas.

Mostly I was scoring in the 70 range each time right out the box with no studying. However I don't have much electronics backgroud outside of simple wiring and relays and such as that sort of thing. Theory no, practical application yes.

So passing it one time out of five try's, I was not at all disspointed with. And thats just doing it five times each of two sitting. Then I await the book.

I did correspond with one instructor who showed up on a search of ARRL's site as conducting a class. All the way down in Savannah. However there is stumbling block to me taking that class. Its a two day class... BUT they are offered in two seperate weekend days. One on Saturday the first week and the second one the next Saturday and then the test. So it would be a major pain in the ass to travel 5 hours one way two weekends in a row. So he and I are discussing me doing some self study for the first Saturday and then coming and taking the second Saturday class and then test. I think I am leaning that way right now. This would just be Tech level only this time.

Then if I pass that one I go home and start studying Code. If I don't pass, there is a examination point about an hour and a half away. Unless I find someone closer in the mean time.

 

[Carl]

Test Complete
The elapsed time was: 5 minutes and 42 seconds.
You have passed the test with a score of 82.9 percent.

Man you guys down there in the USA must have REALLY dumbed down the tests,no offence meant to anyone that has taken it. Less than 6 minutes...holy cow.

that was my first try sence they redid everything.they did away all the technical questions. you dont need to know anything about electronics now.