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QRZ gets a Wakeup Call
- Thread starter Sonwatcher
- Start date
ButtFuzz
Anti-BS Advocate ● WO0WOO ● Reverend Doctor
YES, BUT...
Most every HF Rig by the big three of relatively modern vintage have a wire or diode (sometimes TWO, just to be complicated) you can snip and turn them into a General Coverage Transceiver. THIS INCLUDES THE CB FREQUENCIES...
I'm a ham, I'm a CBer and I'm also a Homo Sapien. Frankly, who cares? Run what 'cha brung...
When it comes right down to it:
"It's all about the dollar bill."
(apologies to Johnny "Guitar" Watson...")
Most every HF Rig by the big three of relatively modern vintage have a wire or diode (sometimes TWO, just to be complicated) you can snip and turn them into a General Coverage Transceiver. THIS INCLUDES THE CB FREQUENCIES...
I'm a ham, I'm a CBer and I'm also a Homo Sapien. Frankly, who cares? Run what 'cha brung...
When it comes right down to it:
"It's all about the dollar bill."
(apologies to Johnny "Guitar" Watson...")
First point:
I would like to see that Hammies and CB'ers alike KNOW FOR A FACT that the 'export' radios are not being brought into this country illegally. That's right. If that were the case, that would mean smuggling - in which case they would cost frightfully more and NOT be sold in shops ANYWHERE IN THE US.
Second point:
The US Gov't collects import duties on these 'export' radios, that is why they are let in in the first place. That means revenues to the US gov't are collected.
Third point:
Since they are let in by the gov't and duties are paid, the US gov't itself is the cause for them being distributed and used by US citizens. They allow them to be imported - and therefore provide the means for them to be distributed after such sanction.
Fourth point:
Since all of the above is true and correct, the gov't itself is responsible for any such use of these radios. They have no moral ground to stand upon if/when they should cite someone for owning/operating such a radio. Regardless of power output OR frequency usage. The US gov'ts best bet is to only cite people for any other violation that doesn't call into question the legality of the radio that they themselves have collected import duties on.
Either it is all one thing; or the other.
Not both...
I would like to see that Hammies and CB'ers alike KNOW FOR A FACT that the 'export' radios are not being brought into this country illegally. That's right. If that were the case, that would mean smuggling - in which case they would cost frightfully more and NOT be sold in shops ANYWHERE IN THE US.
Second point:
The US Gov't collects import duties on these 'export' radios, that is why they are let in in the first place. That means revenues to the US gov't are collected.
Third point:
Since they are let in by the gov't and duties are paid, the US gov't itself is the cause for them being distributed and used by US citizens. They allow them to be imported - and therefore provide the means for them to be distributed after such sanction.
Fourth point:
Since all of the above is true and correct, the gov't itself is responsible for any such use of these radios. They have no moral ground to stand upon if/when they should cite someone for owning/operating such a radio. Regardless of power output OR frequency usage. The US gov'ts best bet is to only cite people for any other violation that doesn't call into question the legality of the radio that they themselves have collected import duties on.
Either it is all one thing; or the other.
Not both...
Where do you get this word "export" from?
They are not called that, they are 10 meter radios.
"export" implies something intended for another country.
In this case, 10 meter ham radios are legal to sell in the USA.
These are not CB radios.
Some hams might think the manufacturer of these 10 meter radios are trying to fool them into to thinking they are ham rigs. That's not the case. They are called 10 meter radios for the purpose of making it obvious to the consumer that these radios are only legal to be used by licensed amateurs. If the customer uses it for CB, then the responsibility for the illegal use rests with the user.
The FCC has bigger fish to fry, anyways. But they are going after CBers with big dirty amps bleeding over onto hams on 10 meters.
They are not called that, they are 10 meter radios.
"export" implies something intended for another country.
In this case, 10 meter ham radios are legal to sell in the USA.
These are not CB radios.
Some hams might think the manufacturer of these 10 meter radios are trying to fool them into to thinking they are ham rigs. That's not the case. They are called 10 meter radios for the purpose of making it obvious to the consumer that these radios are only legal to be used by licensed amateurs. If the customer uses it for CB, then the responsibility for the illegal use rests with the user.
The FCC has bigger fish to fry, anyways. But they are going after CBers with big dirty amps bleeding over onto hams on 10 meters.
Well, don't I feel pretty stupid!
I have heard them used interchangebly - so there is the point of confusion.
One other point: If the 10 meter radios have approval by the FCC; then why isn't there a tag that says so on the back - like CB's do?
After all...They both have to be approved to be in this country. I have two 10 meter radios and neither of them have the 'type approval' tags on the back. In fact, the ONLY radios that don't have that tag in my shack are the 10 meter radios.
Additionally...The FCC has all these 10 meter radios (Connex, Galaxy, Magnum, etc...) on the the 'illegal' list...Including the ones I have...Yet - they collect import duties on them and dealers sell them all day long...Please explain?
I have heard them used interchangebly - so there is the point of confusion.
One other point: If the 10 meter radios have approval by the FCC; then why isn't there a tag that says so on the back - like CB's do?
After all...They both have to be approved to be in this country. I have two 10 meter radios and neither of them have the 'type approval' tags on the back. In fact, the ONLY radios that don't have that tag in my shack are the 10 meter radios.
Additionally...The FCC has all these 10 meter radios (Connex, Galaxy, Magnum, etc...) on the the 'illegal' list...Including the ones I have...Yet - they collect import duties on them and dealers sell them all day long...Please explain?
FT101 11 meters ?
W5LZ you better check the date that 11 meters was changed to class D CB BAND
I don't think any Yaesu FT101's were made prior to September 1958
RCB
The FT-101 was manufactured during the time when 11 meters -was- a ham band. So, it could cover that band legally 'right out of the box'. Doesn't apply to radios made after 11 meters was removed from the ham bands.
If you find an FT-101 that is still in the original box, never having been removed, never been turned on, you'd better hang on to that thing! It's worth a fortune
- 'Doc
W5LZ you better check the date that 11 meters was changed to class D CB BAND
I don't think any Yaesu FT101's were made prior to September 1958
RCB
Amateur radios sold in the USA do not need FCC certification. Like they said earlier in the thread, a licensed amateur can use a toaster on the ham bands if it meets the technical standards of part 97. This is why those 10 meter radios do not have FCC certification tags.
However CB radio is completely different. Part 95 of the rules state that CB transceivers must be certified by the commission. Only transceivers which are locked down to the 40 CB channels and are within the power limits will be certified. If you modify the CB radio then you void the certification on that radio, and therefore your authority to operate that radio.
The 10 meter radios they are collecting import duties on fall under part 97 of the rules.
That so called "illegal list" of 10 meter radios is not legit. The list does not appear on any fcc website. The list was created by an amateur radio operator. It is made to look offical, but it is a scam. The fcc has no rules defining "easy to modify". The list is clearly illegitimate due to the absence of the FT-101 as discussed previously here. The FT-101 is as easy to modify for CB as any other 10 meter radio.
That being said, I still see amateur HF rigs getting FCC certification. I really dont know what the point is since only external power amps need certification. The IC-7600 received FCC certification FCC ID: AFJ307300, why?
W5LZ you better check the date that 11 meters was changed to class D CB BAND
I don't think any Yaesu FT101's were made prior to September 1958
RCB
It's amazing how some people think that the USA is the only country on the planet. 11m REMAINED a legal amateur band in a lot of countries well after the band became class D citizens band in the USA. It was not unusual at all for a ham operator in a foreign country to hear a CB'er and attempt to contact him until he found out the guy was a CB'er and not a ham.
Afaik, if they are sold commercially they need to be type accepted unless it is a kit.
A ham can make and use whatever they want or modify anything made for another service for use in the amateur service. The amateur is responsible for the equipment they use and the output they generate.
Commercially marketed equipment does need certification but homebrew gear does not. Have you ever seen a new radio advertised that has a disclaimer in fine print that says "This unit may not be sold or offered for sale within the USA until receiving proper FCC certification." Check out any ham magazine when a new piece of gear first comes out.
W
W9WD
Guest
Fred
(John Doe) is correct in that you cannot market these devices on the internet, regardless if you are marketing them to amateurs or not. The devices cannot be marketed in the United States by any person. The RCI 2970 and the RCI 6300F150 can easily be modified to operate on the CB band. That is why the Commission has not allowed them to be certificated and that is why the FCC does not permit the "marketing of these devices by any person. See the attached Citation which explains our position. (we didn't get the attachment -fred)
I am going to forward the information down to the Spectrum Enforcement Division for further investigation and comment.
David Dombrowski
FCC Philadelphia Office
I think the operative term would be "marketed".
Used, from one person to another, would be a different thing, IMO.
(John Doe) is correct in that you cannot market these devices on the internet, regardless if you are marketing them to amateurs or not. The devices cannot be marketed in the United States by any person. The RCI 2970 and the RCI 6300F150 can easily be modified to operate on the CB band. That is why the Commission has not allowed them to be certificated and that is why the FCC does not permit the "marketing of these devices by any person. See the attached Citation which explains our position. (we didn't get the attachment -fred)
I am going to forward the information down to the Spectrum Enforcement Division for further investigation and comment.
David Dombrowski
FCC Philadelphia Office
I think the operative term would be "marketed".
Used, from one person to another, would be a different thing, IMO.
The position of the FCC on this matter is clear on some points and arbitrary on others. The position of the FCC that is clear is that any transceiver, whether Ranger, ICOM, Yaesu or Kenwood which has been opened is not legal to re-sell. The rules define a CB transmitter as one that transmits on CB. Ergo, any Amateur transceiver which has been opened and transmits on CB is a CB by definition under the rules.
Everything else the FCC says on the issue of easy modification is arbitrary. The only reason that 10 meter transceivers are included on the list is because the price is cheaper than a full band transceiver. Therefore, freebanders are more likely to purchase them. Rather than chase those violating the regulations, the FCC tried to circumvent the rulemaking process by arbitrarily stating certain transceivers are intended for CB and certain are not. While effective in scaring off some retailers, the FCC cannot win in court.
As far as certification of Amateur transceivers, it is not required. The certification label seen on some Amateur transceivers relates to Part 15 and nothing else.
Everything else the FCC says on the issue of easy modification is arbitrary. The only reason that 10 meter transceivers are included on the list is because the price is cheaper than a full band transceiver. Therefore, freebanders are more likely to purchase them. Rather than chase those violating the regulations, the FCC tried to circumvent the rulemaking process by arbitrarily stating certain transceivers are intended for CB and certain are not. While effective in scaring off some retailers, the FCC cannot win in court.
As far as certification of Amateur transceivers, it is not required. The certification label seen on some Amateur transceivers relates to Part 15 and nothing else.
WRONG. An amateur radio is STILL classified as an amateur radio even if it is modified to operate on 11m. Many hams open up their radios legally to extend the operational range of transverters.Doing so does not make them a CB. According to your idea all military and pretty much all marine and commercial HF radios would be CB's straight from the box.
Again, commercially marketed radios MUST have FCC certification for emmissions etc. Homebrew gear does not need to be certified HOWEVER the builder/operator must ensure it meets applicable standards.Actually if an amateur operator builds or modifies more than one unit of any type of amp in a given year they must be certified. A non-amateur operator may not build or modify ANY amps without certification. Yes I know I mentioned amps and not tcvr's but a lot of folks think amps need not be certified on the amateur bands.