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Retailers Breakin the Law?
- Thread starter C2
- Start date
frmboybuck said:
I am not even going to get into that. That very issue has been interpreted by none other than Riley Hollingsworth himself. I know you will argue with me, but I am not the authority, OK. All I can do is tell you what the Special Counsel for Amateur Amatuer Enforcement said about it. Not just to me, but in his forums.
An illegal station has NO protection from interference from a LEGAL station exercising the privileges of his license. The rule that states that no station shall intentionally interfere with other signals simply assumes that the interference is coming from one LEGAL, licensed station to another LICENSED station. It does not imply, nor grant, protection to a station that has no durned business being there to start with. Come ON, man! Think about it!
To believe otherwise is illogical and rather an empty take on the situation. It doesn't even make sense!Call 717-338-2502 for the real scoop.
Wouldn't it be a hoot to be able to set up low-power CW beacons from 28.005 to about 28.285 to cover all those 5 KHZ "channels" those stupes think they have? :twisted: Wouldn't THAT put a harelip on those idiot buffoons! :twisted:
Speaking of which, what ABOUT those beacons? They are legal, now aren't they? AT least on *some* frequencies.
CWM
Yes why not make the whole cw sub band on 10 useless with beacons? Makes perfect sense to me, talking about cutting your nose off to spite your face sheeeeezzz!!!!!!!!!
idiot buffoons!
I wonder which is the biggest,
1) The guy that's talking on 20.085?
2) The guy that is pounding out CQ CQ CQ CQ in cw just to harrass?
Everbody feel free to chime in on this!!! :twisted: :roll: :idea:
I wonder which is the biggest,
1) The guy that's talking on 20.085?
2) The guy that is pounding out CQ CQ CQ CQ in cw just to harrass?
Everbody feel free to chime in on this!!! :twisted: :roll:
:idea:
Well I have just finished reading the whole thread from start to finish and I must say WHEW!! :shock: :shock: I have a question for CW.Unless I missed something due to weary eyeballs I believe you,Jerry,said that the standards for Federal comms is much higher than for civilian use.That is why the TXCO is required to just bring an amateur radio up to specs for use on federal freqs. Correct? If that is so then how can you say that the feds can use the Ranger 2970DX on their freqs. from 24-32 MHz?They don't come close to a real amateur radio like an Icom or Yaesu even when that Icom or Yaesu does have the TXCO installed.It looks more and more like the government,at any level, simply says do as I say and not as I do.Forget the whole idea that it was an emergency and that changes the rules as that does not hold water for using an Icom 706 while on CAP freqs in an emergency while looking for a downed plane does it? :?
O
I am not going to argue over this.
717-338-2502
That's where the answer to this is. FCC attorneys interpret these laws, I don't.
It is predictable that *some* will quote the LETTER of the law without considering the INTENT of the law. I will comment no further on the merits of believing that ANY illegal station has some sort of protection from "interference" from a LEGAL station operating on his assigned frequency.
CWM
If it walks like a duck
TALKS like a duck
Sounds like a duck
it MUST be a duck, er uh, TRUCK!
(See phone # above)
I am not going to argue over this.
717-338-2502
That's where the answer to this is. FCC attorneys interpret these laws, I don't.
It is predictable that *some* will quote the LETTER of the law without considering the INTENT of the law. I will comment no further on the merits of believing that ANY illegal station has some sort of protection from "interference" from a LEGAL station operating on his assigned frequency.
CWM
If it walks like a duck
TALKS like a duck
Sounds like a duck
it MUST be a duck, er uh, TRUCK!
(See phone # above)
you said-
"I will comment no further on the merits of believing that ANY illegal station has some sort of protection from "interference" from a LEGAL station operating on his assigned frequency."
Ok, here is an FCC rule-
The answer in the book is never #1
If the above station is operating illegally on 28.085 how do you justify breaking the rule ?
"I will comment no further on the merits of believing that ANY illegal station has some sort of protection from "interference" from a LEGAL station operating on his assigned frequency."
Ok, here is an FCC rule-
The answer in the book is never #1
If the above station is operating illegally on 28.085 how do you justify breaking the rule ?
Cw,
There we go with that" Truck "reference again............Thats like saying all "Hams" are cut from the same "SOW".......Get my point .You tell everyone it is not your battle (unless you got 'ole Hollingworths # waving like 'ole glory) but you sure are the one to poke the "Trucker Embers".........
Why don't you try to clean your own "HAM HOUSE" and get your "RULES" to be enforced other than through your "TWISTED" :twisted: :twisted: "ROVER APPROVED GLASSES"...
From your antique Ford (great car ) to the food you eat (crow lately ),to the gas you burn (no not all that co2 you bring in here ) it was brought to you by a "Trucker"..
I know I suggested this to you awhile back..BUT..If you really want to "BITE" onto illegal radio....try shutting down that "Sweet Spanish" thing "Splashing "every channel.......You might get her quiet and even get "Lucky" 8)
Snoope back hiding in the snow........Ho-Ho-Ho
There we go with that" Truck "reference again............Thats like saying all "Hams" are cut from the same "SOW".......Get my point
.You tell everyone it is not your battle (unless you got 'ole Hollingworths # waving like 'ole glory) but you sure are the one to poke the "Trucker Embers".........Why don't you try to clean your own "HAM HOUSE" and get your "RULES" to be enforced other than through your "TWISTED" :twisted: :twisted: "ROVER APPROVED GLASSES"...
From your antique Ford (great car
) to the food you eat (crow lately ),to the gas you burn (no not all that co2 you bring in here ) it was brought to you by a "Trucker"..I know I suggested this to you awhile back..BUT..If you really want to "BITE" onto illegal radio....try shutting down that "Sweet Spanish" thing "Splashing "every channel.......You might get her quiet and even get "Lucky" 8)
Snoope back hiding in the snow........Ho-Ho-Ho
I did a search with Google today under the heading of NTIA juridiction and went half-blind reading through the first 2 pages of results. I have some impresssions of what I read. I cannot give you any links cuz I'm too stupid to know how to do this and some of them have real long addresses.
The FCC and NTIA are two seperate organizations with two seperate areas of responsibilty. NTIA actually is in charge of federal government spectrum management. All of it with the exception of military comms. FCC has responsibility for non-federal-government comms and public/civil comms.
This means that each one has specific authority over specific areas and neither has any control over the other's responsibility. FCC makes rules and regulations over civil, private, and none-federal comms. NTIA makes them for all federal comms. They are completely seperated. What standards, rules and regulations each one makes is completely contained within their areas of responsibility.
What this means does boil down to who'se rules are in which agency's oversight, and that is how this business of FEMA buying illegal radios is nothing. FEMA is a federal government agnecy. It is under NTIA jurisdiction and completely outside of any FCC rule. The FCC has ruled that entities under its jurisdiction cannot buy, sell, etc, certain radios. But this prohibition does not extend to areas outside its control. Federal government all comes down to NTIA's rules, not FCC's, so buying the radios isn't against the law for FEMA. The law doesn't include federal agencies.
Furthermore, each agency has specific responsibily for certain parts of the spectrum. Sone freqs are under FCC control, some are under NTIA's control and evertything else is under military control. Where a band plan may list certain freqs are "government" it's talking about the FEDS and its NTIA country. And a lot of the so-called "freegand" is under government assignement.
So, the bottom line is that regarding buying of the expoert radios was perfectly legal for TEMA to do beccause FEMA isn't under FCC jurisdiction. It's an FCC rule and it relates only to matters under FCC control.
Is that irony? Not really, just different juridictions, different areas of responsibility. NTIA apparently has no rule related to export radios while the FCC doesn't like them and doesn't want to have them sold. But FCC rules are not applicable to NTIA matters.
Okay, now how does one get around the "no sale" rule for export radios in the USA? Order them from Canada and have them brought in by US government trucks. Feds are exempt from Customs inspection.
[EDITED]
Please excuse typos, I'm having difficulty reading the screen
The FCC and NTIA are two seperate organizations with two seperate areas of responsibilty. NTIA actually is in charge of federal government spectrum management. All of it with the exception of military comms. FCC has responsibility for non-federal-government comms and public/civil comms.
This means that each one has specific authority over specific areas and neither has any control over the other's responsibility. FCC makes rules and regulations over civil, private, and none-federal comms. NTIA makes them for all federal comms. They are completely seperated. What standards, rules and regulations each one makes is completely contained within their areas of responsibility.
What this means does boil down to who'se rules are in which agency's oversight, and that is how this business of FEMA buying illegal radios is nothing. FEMA is a federal government agnecy. It is under NTIA jurisdiction and completely outside of any FCC rule. The FCC has ruled that entities under its jurisdiction cannot buy, sell, etc, certain radios. But this prohibition does not extend to areas outside its control. Federal government all comes down to NTIA's rules, not FCC's, so buying the radios isn't against the law for FEMA. The law doesn't include federal agencies.
Furthermore, each agency has specific responsibily for certain parts of the spectrum. Sone freqs are under FCC control, some are under NTIA's control and evertything else is under military control. Where a band plan may list certain freqs are "government" it's talking about the FEDS and its NTIA country. And a lot of the so-called "freegand" is under government assignement.
So, the bottom line is that regarding buying of the expoert radios was perfectly legal for TEMA to do beccause FEMA isn't under FCC jurisdiction. It's an FCC rule and it relates only to matters under FCC control.
Is that irony? Not really, just different juridictions, different areas of responsibility. NTIA apparently has no rule related to export radios while the FCC doesn't like them and doesn't want to have them sold. But FCC rules are not applicable to NTIA matters.
Okay, now how does one get around the "no sale" rule for export radios in the USA? Order them from Canada and have them brought in by US government trucks. Feds are exempt from Customs inspection.
[EDITED]
Please excuse typos, I'm having difficulty reading the screen
Hey Jerry I was not looking for an arguement but was truly looking for some clarification on the issue.On one hand it looks like you agreed that they can use whatever radio they want to but on the other hand you said that radios used on fed freqs. need to be of higher standards.Like I said I asked that after reading the ENTIRE thread from start to finish in one foul swoop and maybe my eyeballs and brain were overloaded. :shock:
o
.Forget the whole idea that it was an emergency and that changes the rules as that does not hold water for using an Icom 706 while on CAP freqs in an emergency while looking for a downed plane does it?
***********************************************
The CAP folks, I'm told, are controlled by NTIA and, thus must meet NTIA rules. So an Icom 706 must have the TCXO and authorization from his state organization.(Wing?) "Authorization" is not the same as "license" for US gov't purposes.
Now, first of all, we must remember that we are discussing the
[/i]ALLEGED purchase of radios that are deemed under FCC rules. We have no proof--only hearsay-- that this ever occurred, and even if it did, the FCC rules simply don't apply as indicated by Bandaid Kid's research. NTIA's requirements are simply beyond FCC's authority; IOW, NTIA trumps FCC and can tell them to go take a hike! "Export" radio restrictions simply do not exist for NTIA---the FCC restriction exists because it's authority extends to civilian purchase ONLY.
Nobody is saying anyone is lying about the purchase of "export" radios. But we all know how that is. "So-n-so told so-n-so, and I heard it from Bill, and Jack got it from Tom: hearsay that, 90% of the time is either half-truth or simply incorrect. Everybody means well, so no "lie" is involved; the information is simply wrong or not fully verified.
*Some* Ranger products are approved as Amateur Radios and sold as such by legitimate Amateur dealers. If, when, how, or why the 2970 landed on the FCC's sh** list, I do not know. Another fact is that Federal agencies HAVE been known to purchase Amateur radios and USE them. Kenwood's TS50, a fantastic radio, to my mind, is one that USAF used for a time. They also buy some of them to evaluate features when they have a tactical need that their current mil spec radios don't currently meet. For example, (and this was a long time ago), some of their channelized, fixed-frequency radios hampered their communications flexibility. The frequency agile, PLL rigs were just coming on the market--and becoming smaller, too! That piqued the military's interest, so they bought some of these radios to see how they would enhance their communications mobility and frequency flexibility. I'm told they LOVED them, so they went back to Harris, Motorola, and other
military radio bidders and said, "Look, this is what we want--MAKE it happen!" They didn't HAVE to go to FCC and say, "Please, Daddy, can we have these toys?" So they had mil spec versions developed to go in tanks and trucks, airplanes to meet the demanding environment of battle. Some Amateur radios have been purchase right off the shelf and USED as is depending on the requirement. That is the key: what is the tactical requirement? Battle, or to go in air conditioned HQ in the rear areas 8)
So that simply means that what I said all along, via Bandaid Kid's research, is true!~ I don't have it 99 44/100% true every time, but this IS fact. NTIA rules trumps FCC rules. FCC rules don't apply to "export" radios so far as the US gov't is concerned. To us civvies, it may seem not fair, but we must remember, too, that government and military communications requirement ARE very different and, thus the rules have to be different.
73
CWM
.Forget the whole idea that it was an emergency and that changes the rules as that does not hold water for using an Icom 706 while on CAP freqs in an emergency while looking for a downed plane does it?
***********************************************
The CAP folks, I'm told, are controlled by NTIA and, thus must meet NTIA rules. So an Icom 706 must have the TCXO and authorization from his state organization.(Wing?) "Authorization" is not the same as "license" for US gov't purposes.
Now, first of all, we must remember that we are discussing the
[/i]ALLEGED purchase of radios that are deemed under FCC rules. We have no proof--only hearsay-- that this ever occurred, and even if it did, the FCC rules simply don't apply as indicated by Bandaid Kid's research. NTIA's requirements are simply beyond FCC's authority; IOW, NTIA trumps FCC and can tell them to go take a hike! "Export" radio restrictions simply do not exist for NTIA---the FCC restriction exists because it's authority extends to civilian purchase ONLY.
Nobody is saying anyone is lying about the purchase of "export" radios. But we all know how that is. "So-n-so told so-n-so, and I heard it from Bill, and Jack got it from Tom: hearsay that, 90% of the time is either half-truth or simply incorrect. Everybody means well, so no "lie" is involved; the information is simply wrong or not fully verified.
*Some* Ranger products are approved as Amateur Radios and sold as such by legitimate Amateur dealers. If, when, how, or why the 2970 landed on the FCC's sh** list, I do not know. Another fact is that Federal agencies HAVE been known to purchase Amateur radios and USE them. Kenwood's TS50, a fantastic radio, to my mind, is one that USAF used for a time. They also buy some of them to evaluate features when they have a tactical need that their current mil spec radios don't currently meet. For example, (and this was a long time ago), some of their channelized, fixed-frequency radios hampered their communications flexibility. The frequency agile, PLL rigs were just coming on the market--and becoming smaller, too! That piqued the military's interest, so they bought some of these radios to see how they would enhance their communications mobility and frequency flexibility. I'm told they LOVED them, so they went back to Harris, Motorola, and other
military radio bidders and said, "Look, this is what we want--MAKE it happen!" They didn't HAVE to go to FCC and say, "Please, Daddy, can we have these toys?"
So they had mil spec versions developed to go in tanks and trucks, airplanes to meet the demanding environment of battle. Some Amateur radios have been purchase right off the shelf and USED as is depending on the requirement. That is the key: what is the tactical requirement? Battle, or to go in air conditioned HQ in the rear areas 8) So that simply means that what I said all along, via Bandaid Kid's research, is true!~
I don't have it 99 44/100% true every time, but this IS fact. NTIA rules trumps FCC rules. FCC rules don't apply to "export" radios so far as the US gov't is concerned. To us civvies, it may seem not fair, but we must remember, too, that government and military communications requirement ARE very different and, thus the rules have to be different.73
CWM
snoope said:Cw,
There we go with that" Truck "reference again............Thats like saying all "Hams" are cut from the same "SOW".......Get my point
Why don't you try to clean your own "HAM HOUSE" and get your "RULES" to be enforced other than through your "TWISTED" :twisted: :twisted: "ROVER APPROVED GLASSES"...
From your antique Ford (great car
1. NO. All truckers are NOT cut from the same sow.
2. It becomes the battle of EVERY licensed Amateur to see that
intruders are promptly dealt with and punished severely for incroaching where they have no business.
3. The "HAM HOUSE" IS being cleaned up; it's why we have the
ARRL FCC Enforcement Log each week to keep the few renegades in line. If it were treated like CB (not ENOUGH enforcement), it would become a cess pit. And, btw, before Riley Hollingsworth came along, it WAS! :shock:
4. Don't think that Congress hasn't had it's ear bent to get more done about enforcement in the form of $$ because it has.
So far, unsuccessfully. :roll:
5. The "everything you get comes by truck so-therefore-we-should-be-able-to break-any-law-we-want-to card has been rolled out until the backing has come off! It has NOTHING to do with ALL truckers. It has to do with the ones who are found fliching 28 MHZ, "Cuz we's got these here big vehicles and we are just soooooooooo important, you should just let us just have them 'extree' channels".
QUICK! CIRCLE THE WAGONS! THE INJUNS ARE COMIN' TO ATTACK US TRUCKERS. QUICK! THEY ARE SHOOTING AT US!
QUICK! THEY DON'T WANT US TO TALK ON THEM CHANNELS!
CIRCLE THE WAGONS,UH ER, TRAILERS. IT AIN'T FAIR. THEY ARE GOING AFTER ALL US TRUCKERS!!!
NO! You read me here because I am repeating what I HEAR on the air. What I HEAR is the echo-ey, bouncey, "trucky-sounding", overmodulated audio of a TRUCK driver saying "I know you right, drivah, them 4 wheelers----etc, etc, etc.
There-is-not-supposed-to-be-amplitude-modulated-voice-or-ANY-voice below 28.300!!!!!
SO.....................if it SOUNDS like a duck,
TALKS like a duck.
Then it MUST be a duck, er uh, TRUCK!!!!!!!!!! get it?
I know I suggested this to you awhile back..BUT..If you really want to "BITE" onto illegal radio....try shutting down that "Sweet Spanish" thing "Splashing "every channel.......You might get her quiet and even get "Lucky" 8)
FCC doesn't have jurisdiction over what OTHER nations do. It becomes a treaty issue and a matter of negotiation between countries.
The issue, ergo, has nothing to do with truckers as a whole. It has to do with the ones who think they have "extree" channels that Billy Bob's CB shop 'converted' and can talk where they want to. :evil:
CWM
Snoope back hiding in the snow........Ho-Ho-Ho
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